The Puffer Forum

Hi everyone,

It's me again, and I finally have my 17g tank up and running just last night. The current inhabitants are a lone Oto and 3 DPs. I also have 3 Amano shrimps and 7 RCS in QT - to be added into the tank sometime this weekend. Now, my question is this, can I add another pair of Otos without stressing out the tank's bioload, and if not the Otos, are there any other compatible tankmates that I can consider putting in with the DPs?

Next up is the question about lighting. My tank is planted and now that it has been upgraded from 5g to 17g, the desklamp is no longer an option and I will need to get a proper tank lamp. I have to admit, I'm still not completely well-versed in this entire lighting/CO2/algae bloom relationship, though I have been reading up on online articles and the conflicting information just confuses me even more. Some authors has suggested a 3W/Gallon lighting ratio, others suggest 0.8W/Gallon - actually everyone has their own opinion and I don't know who to heed. I plan to cover at least 50 to 60% of my tank surface with plants and I dose my tank regularly with liquid fertilizer and CO2 tabs, so any suggestions on the lighting parameters w.r.t. my specifications will be greatly welcomed. And, oh yes, I'm still very new at planted tanks, so an idiot-proof set up will be very much preferable. =)

Last but not least, I will be getting another HOB filter for the new tank. Right now, it is temporarily running on the HOB filter of the previous 5g, with a flow rate of around 230l/hr. I understand that filtration for a DP tank should ideally cycle at least 3-4 times (rounding off to 5) the tank volume per hour. So, for a 17g (I will round it off to 20g) that will be 20x5x4 = 400l/hr. Will that be sufficient, or would I need a larger filter? FYI, I will be running two filters concurrently, with the 230l/hr HOB serving as backup.

Thanks for reading!

I am not chasing u away but u may wish to check with another planted forum to get the best advice on setup. But I do know wpg is pretty much a hit and miss gauge. Example a tank with more height will require more watts as compared to a shallower tank.. but 3wpg on your tank seems a bit too much. If u see more algae built up, lowering the wpg or shorten lights on time helps. And the co2 tab that u are using are not going to be effective when u are using a hob. There's too much gas exchange. Consider getting a canister filter. There are small canister that can be hanged on the side of the tank. Not as cheap as a hob though.

Water plants are very easy to maintain. Ive had no experience with plants untill recently that ive aquired a tank myself. So far with no prior experience i have a 100% success rate in helping them thrive. The only problems ive had is the amazon swords my fahaka has murdered. Please keep in mind that algea love the same things your plants do. But you seem to have plenty of plants that will help with that. I'm sure someone here can direct you in the technicality of it all but dont be scared to try something new. I'm suffering from an algae boom now and do warn you on excessive lighting. Here read this on algae. http://aquadaily.com/2009/01/09/algae-c ... -aquarium/
Plants are a peice of cake.

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. I will continue to do my read-ups on planted tanks and go poke around a planted forum or two to learn more. It was just that of lot of you have such nice, well kept, well planted aquariums, and I thought that it would be nice to learn from you guys. I will definitely be taking note of this danger known as 'algae-bloom'. I saw your thread earlier, defoo89, and it looks really alarming!!

Well, I went out to get myself some more new plants as well as tank lights and a canister filter, as advised by scpion (thanks!). I'm quite liking my new canister filter, the one I bought has a flow rate of 800l/hr so I know that the tank will be nicely over-filtrated, and best of all, it's really nice and quiet. For the tank light, I decided to compromise and bought an 18W T8 lamp, so that'd be roughly 1W/gal for the tank, hopefully not too much and not too little.

Here's what the tank looks like now:



The DPs and the lone Oto also seem more relaxed and willing to explore in a planted environment:



That's Apache vs. my Marimo moss ball.

So umm, any feedback on the addition of more fishes?

Stocking level in terms of bioload, I would say yes, maybe u can stock another otto... BUT, as RTR had pointed out in some other recent threads, these little fellas need a very well established planted tank. The main concern is their food source aka algae. Which your tank may not be able to support atm.

I was actually thinking of stocking 2 more Otos instead of one. I read that their bioloads are a lot smaller than DPs', and three Otos would make a nice little group and they can all chill out together. =) As for the algae requirements, it's okay even if there are no algae in the tank right now. I supplement my Oto's diet with Hikari's Algae wafer (which he ignores) and frozen zucchini slices (which he goes crazy for) - though I will likely reduce the frequency of those feedings once the tank establishes itself.

Woot, looks like another trip to SeaView is in the books, and I just went there this afternoon too. My 'puff-ulary' also went up by one species: saw a rather lively pair of MBUs in there, looking at me with their googly eyes and swishing their tails like excited puppies. Very cute, but going for 200 bucks a pair. I can see why you choose that breed, scpion.

First off, you have non-aquatic plants in the tank - the green with white striped leafed plants are Dracena, a land plant which is not aquatic. Get them out and replace with true aquatics. They are commonly sold for submerse use but do not do well there.

3WPG is high light regardless of the spectrum. I would never suggest such a demanding set-up for a novice plant grower's first tank.

Also IMHO, the "moss" ball (really an alga) does well only with shrimp to groom them, and shrimp are not compatible with DPs - they are live food.

Can you cut the light at least in half?

HTH

RTR wrote:First off, you have non-aquatic plants in the tank - the green with white striped leafed plants are Dracena, a land plant which is not aquatic. Get them out and replace with true aquatics. They are commonly sold for submerse use but do not do well there.

3WPG is high light regardless of the spectrum. I would never suggest such a demanding set-up for a novice plant grower's first tank.

Also IMHO, the "moss" ball (really an alga) does well only with shrimp to groom them, and shrimp are not compatible with DPs - they are live food.

Can you cut the light at least in half?

HTH

Good lord, I had no idea that plant was not aquatic. Really need to take the LFS assistant's words with a pinch of salt next time. Will do, will take out and replace with a more suitable plant species. The light that I'm using right now is an 18W T8 lamp. I believe that would amount to roughly 1WPG? Is that still too much, and if so, can I cut the time I turn on the light instead? Because I really have no idea how to cut the light rating in half else wise.

Regarding the "moss" ball (that's what we call them here, haha), I do have shrimps in the tank, or at least they will be in after I do a PWC to clear out the Praziquantel that I'm treating my DPs with. Prior to the medication, my DPs were doing quite well with Amano shrimps, so I don't believe that will be an issue. I'm not sure about the RCS though, but I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

Thanks for pointing out my oversight, I wouldn't have known otherwise.

For the Mbu thing.. back then I was one of those a%*hole that didn't do any research and bought it on impulse. I didn't know what that was either and no one from the shop told me that this is the largest fw puffer on planet earth..

And they attempt to sell them in pair at a discount.. good luck to whoever buys them.. next time u are there, try asking them if they do know anything abt Mbu or rather anything from that sad corner..

scpion wrote:For the Mbu thing.. back then I was one of those a%*hole that didn't do any research and bought it on impulse. I didn't know what that was either and no one from the shop told me that this is the largest fw puffer on planet earth..

And they attempt to sell them in pair at a discount.. good luck to whoever buys them.. next time u are there, try asking them if they do know anything abt Mbu or rather anything from that sad corner..

Um, not that the people there are deliberately rude, but they are definitely quite terse and to-the-point when you approach them for help. Still, I have exceptionally thick skin and never hesitate to pester them with a lot of questions whenever I go there (but I think you guys are starting to realize that already). I think those folks over there recognize me by sight now; they always seem to suddenly become very busy when I enter the shop and their line-of-vision.

I think the MBUs are one of their 'best-sellers,' even for people who know next to nothing about them. Out of all the puffers displayed at that section, they are the most lively and engaging, quickly stoking the 'I-must-buy-it-home' instincts of people.

Your MBU is very lucky to have you; even though you initially got into this knowing next to nothing, you are doing everything you can for it as a responsible owner. =)

Really need to take the LFS assistant's words with a pinch of salt next time.

Even less than a grain, IMO. They're there to sell you stuff.

IMO, planted tanks are NOT that easy. Unless you're running CO2, stick with low-light species.
Plant those dracenas in a flowerpot.

Pufferpunk wrote:

Really need to take the LFS assistant's words with a pinch of salt next time.

Even less than a grain, IMO. They're there to sell you stuff.

IMO, planted tanks are NOT that easy. Unless you're running CO2, stick with low-light species.
Plant those dracenas in a flowerpot.

Haha, yeah, I guessed I should have approached with caution when I asked the LFS assistant for idiot proof, hardy plants and he told me that everything he has are easy to plant and grow, even that carpet of Glosso he was trying to pawn off on me. Luckily, I was at least discerning enough to decline his offer. >.> As for the dracenas, I will be going back tomorrow to ask for an exchange. Thankfully enough, they have rather flexible policies and will allow for exchanges.

Your tank is looking really good btw. Good job. Just take some advice run with it, experiment have fun!

paws_bells wrote:

Pufferpunk wrote:

Really need to take the LFS assistant's words with a pinch of salt next time.

Even less than a grain, IMO. They're there to sell you stuff.

IMO, planted tanks are NOT that easy. Unless you're running CO2, stick with low-light species.
Plant those dracenas in a flowerpot.

Haha, yeah, I guessed I should have approached with caution when I asked the LFS assistant for idiot proof, hardy plants and he told me that everything he has are easy to plant and grow, even that carpet of Glosso he was trying to pawn off on me. Luckily, I was at least discerning enough to decline his offer. >.> As for the dracenas, I will be going back tomorrow to ask for an exchange. Thankfully enough, they have rather flexible policies and will allow for exchanges.

Paws. i was at Seaview today but where exactly are the Mbus? Are they located right at the back where the big fishes are kept? As for planted tank, you may want to get your fertilisers namely SeaChem's Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus, Trace, Excel and Iron. There are basically what i bought and use for my heavily planted 29g. In fact, if you are not using a compressed CO2 tank, Excel would be pretty important. Do take note that your shrimps might not take too kindly to dosage of copper, which is found in Trace and Comprehensive. Just my 2 cents worth. Alternatively, the 2 uncles at PolyArt or Yishun 618 are a lot friendlier and approachable with regards to your planted tank enquiries.

ps: You may find these local forums really helpful and relevant to your planted tank enquries.

1) http://www.arofanatics.com/home.php
2) http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/

Paws. i was at Seaview today but where exactly are the Mbus? Are they located right at the back where the big fishes are kept? As for planted tank, you may want to get your fertilisers namely SeaChem's Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus, Trace, Excel and Iron. There are basically what i bought and use for my heavily planted 29g. In fact, if you are not using a compressed CO2 tank, Excel would be pretty important. Do take note that your shrimps might not take too kindly to dosage of copper, which is found in Trace and Comprehensive. Just my 2 cents worth. Alternatively, the 2 uncles at PolyArt or Yishun 618 are a lot friendlier and approachable with regards to your planted tank enquiries.

ps: You may find these local forums really helpful and relevant to your planted tank enquries.

1) http://www.arofanatics.com/home.php
2) http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/

Hey mania, thanks for the links and advice. I'm sure I will find them extremely helpful when I delve into my research later. I have Flourish Trace, Phosphurus and Comprehensive right now and am planning to get the others very soon. I have no intention to use compressed CO2, so these will have to do to as alternatives. Will take note about the copper dosage since I read that even the puffs are sensitive to it, so I suppose will have to adjust accordingly.

As for the puffers in SeaView, the dwarf puffers are at the front section right at the side entryway leading to the middle section of the shop. The FW puffers (MBUs, Congos and Fahakas??) are actually in the tall miserable stand beside the large table where the workers will bag your fish for you and fill it up with air before you go to the front counter to make your payment. They are in rows of little 5g (2.5g?) tanks facing the large blue koi/goldfish tanks and beside the betta fish section. Last but not least, the GSPs and the F8s are kept in a tank in the first row at the end section. Hope that helps. =)