The Puffer Forum

Hi, i've just set up a 29gal tank, 24inches(L) by 16inches(B) by 18inches(H). It is currently undergoing cycling and should be done in a week or two. My question with regards to my heavily planted tank is

1) What is the max number of DP and Otos i can have in that tank?
2) I understand Otos should be put in first to get used to the enviroment as they are delicate. How many should i have and how long should they have a headstart? I need them to rid some little black spots on the leaves as well as the rare ones on the walls.
3) Will the DP and Otos uproot my carpet? I'm still waiting for them to cover the subtrate completely and my guess is its going to take another 3-4 weeks.
4) Any enhancements to the tank to ensure a conducive enviroment for the DPs?

ps: i've read up and is aware of the tank parameters requirements.

Thank you all.

Very nice! Be sure all the otos you get have rounded bellies. You could keep around 4-5 DPs but be sure you have all females or only 1 male: library/puffers-in-focus/dwarfpuffercare/
library/puffers-in-focus/sexing-carinot ... rf-puffer/

I have read that otos need established tanks, but never looked further into it.

the puffer and otos wont uproot the plants. the dp might bite at your plants if you have tiny snails crawling everywhere.

I personally have never been able to keep ottos alive for long, I would shoot for 5 dps max pref all females. If it is densely decorated this will displace water so reduce then umber of puffers accordingly. Other fish (ottos) also contribute to bio- load so again reduce the quantity of puffers. Welcome to the forum.

Otos are very sensitive to water parameters variations. Therefore it's normally suggested to add them only to very stable tanks, usually running for at least few months. I would start with the DPs first and then add the Otos later.

Poor success with otos is usually from IPs. This is why I suggest only buying the ones with rounded bellies.

Thanks for all the replies. A few questions if everybody don't mind. My tank which is undergoing cycling since 03 October have parameters as such

10 oct - Ph 6.9, NH3 3.0, NO2 0.5, NO3 0
15 oct - ph 6.4, NH3 1.5, NO2 3.0, NO3 0
18 oct - ph 6.3, NH3 0.5, NO2 1.0, NO3 0
22 oct - ph 6.0, NH3 0.25, NO2 0, NO3 0


1) Why is the PH dropping and would it be acceptable to DPs? I understand consistency is more important given that puffers are adaptable to most ph, but isn't it a bit acidic at 6?
2) My understanding of the cycling is that its NH3 to NO2 to NO3. If so, how is it possible that i have 0 NO2 today while NH3 is at 0.25? This tank has no fishes yet.
3) A healthy tank has NO3 of 10-20ppm. How do i get it up?

Thanks everybody.

Some soil substrate will lower ph. And do u have any source of ammonia that u are using to feed the bacterial constantly? If no, that could explain your readings.

Btw, plants might hinder or delay the cycling process.. Cos they would be competing with the bacterial for the NH3 source.

scpion wrote:Btw, plants might hinder or delay the cycling process.. Cos they would be competing with the bacterial for the NH3 source.

No they won't

Your no3 will appear near the end of the cycle, your ph is dropping away from your source water but dont panic as this will raise and stabilise once the cycle is complete and you do a 90% w/c before adding the fish.

Sorry to disagree, but healthy heavily planted tanks - which this tank is - if well (properly) lighted rarely show nitrate. In my even moderately lighted tanks I have to add nitrate regularly. This is especially true if the tank is not overcrowded and this tank is not yet stocked. There is nothing to provide nitrate but the cycling ammonia, which is at the levels it should be for that purpose.

Sorry to disagree w/pp on Otos, but their common failure in tanks is not IPs but simple starvation. If a batch of newly received Otos are flat-bellied or hollow-bellied, they are quite possibly doomed due to starvation during holding before shipping. As with many South American sucker-mouth cats, these have specialized gut microbes (but not the same ones the wood-eaters have) which will die off it not fed. They can only replace these in the wild, not in captivity. If they have been starved, they are doomed. Such fish generally die within the first 2-3 weeks. So do not purchase them until they have been in the LFS that long.

But it is correct that Otos do need established and relatively stable tanks. I do not add these to new tanks for at least 2-3 months either.

Nice looking tank, it should suit DPs well.

I just want to say the tank looks very nice!

Sorry to disagree w/pp on Otos, but their common failure in tanks is not IPs but simple starvation.

LOL, I knew there was some reason...

How exactly are you cycling this tank? How much ammonia are you adding daily?

scpion wrote:Some soil substrate will lower ph. And do u have any source of ammonia that u are using to feed the bacterial constantly? If no, that could explain your readings.

Well i'm using ADA Amazonia New and i understand that it would be a source for ammonia. In fact, in the first few days, my NH3 reading was 8 ppm, and only frequent water change reduced it. Whats the relation between Ph and NH3?