The Puffer Forum

Water parameters:
Ph 8.0
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 5 ppm
Salinity 1.010
Water temp 76
Tank 30 gallons no other fish.
That is their current water conditions. They were in a 55 gallon, that I made the mistake of putting too many fish in too quickly and the tank recycled. Had ammonia spikes for about a week that I treated using prime and water changes. The puffers seemed to weather the ammonia spikes ok, buy when the nitrite spikes started one of them became very distressed turning dark and lethargic. I treated the nitrite spikes by doing 30% wc's twice a day, but still experienced nitrite spikes in between. The puffers were the only inhabitants showing signs of stress, and one of them more so then other. I continued with the water changes and used the maximum doses of prime, and started adding stability to try and help the bio filter reestablish. The puffers would go up and down during this process, varying between looking content to showing signs of distress. Two days ago the smaller one turned black and would only lay in the corner and stopped eating. That's when I moved them to the 30 gallon tank that has been established. The little one isn't showing any signs of improvement. The larger one will show normal colors and behavior until he swims over to his little buddy, then he'll turn dark and lay by the little one. I'm afraid i'm going to lose them both and I've done everything I can think of. I'm asking for any help you can give me. I've read other threads of similar behavior but haven't found any that ended well.

How long has this 30 gallon been established with the salinity you have of 1.010? A well established tank may be all you can hope for to help the little one at this time. To get him eating, you can take crushed garlic and soak food in that for him. What are you feeding? I would get raw shrimp and soak that in garlic or raw clam piece or mussel, something tasty. If this tanks water parameters stay stable, he may get better with time. You should be careful moving them too, because they should not be taken out of water if at all possible, so using a cup to scoop them out and moving them would be best.

I hope it turns out well. He may just be very stressed with all the water changes, movement etc.

Gwen

Oh, also . . .I'd bump your temp up slowly to 79-80 degrees.

A stable tank is your best ally now as stated above. Keep up the regular waterchanges as 2 gsp in a 30 g is going to end up way overstocked. What test kit are you using? Welcome to the forum

Did you continue with the Prime dosage during the nitrite spike? Seachem does not claim that it helps, but it does seem to help detoxify the nitrite as well. It may not be as effective as for ammonia, but some help is better than none.

For the future, if ammonia or nitrite spikes are seen, do back-to-back partials until they are diluted out below detection levels with hobby test kits. That is far less stressful than leaving the fish in toxic water. Do remember that two 30% partials are only equal to about one 50% partial. Water partial volumes are not additive, dilutions do not work that way. each dilution is individual.

Ammonia and nitrite toxicities are somewhat different in effect on the fish. Both are metabolic poisons, but only ammonia directly burns the gills. If the fish are breathing rapidly, do not, repeat do not, increase the temperature - it could kill them. Raising the temperature is beneficial only if the gills are working normally and they commonly are not in and shortly after ammonia poisoning. some new gill tissue will grow eventually to partially repace the original ammonia damage, but it will never equal the gill capacity the fish would have had if had not been ammonia-burned.

HTH

The 30 gallon tank was established f/w tank for a year and half. Its only had marine salt in it for three days now. I have the API freshwater master test kit, and I have the marine master test kit, but I've been getting the same readings with both kits.
The little puffer is having rapid gill movement, the larger one looks to be breathing easier.

When I had the ammonia spikes I was only doing the normal dose of prime, their website said that the the API test would still read the ammonia although it was neutralized, after the ammonia dropped and the nitrite started spiking I went to the full dose of prime. I added some aquarium salt also hoping it would bond with the nitrites. The other fish seem to be doing ok, but my puffers are getting worst.
The 30 gallon had juvenile chiclids in it. I'm sure it has a strong bio filter, and the ammonia and nurture levels have held at zero since putting marine salt in to it. I thought I was doing the right things but my poor little puffers aren't getting better.

Bacteria are highly sensitive to salinity changes especially in large volumes. If you suddenly changed the water salinity a great deal you may have shocked and killed off the established bacteria.

So far its holding, i've checked it three times a day for three days. I've been adding stability as well.

sgtmyers88 wrote:Bacteria are highly sensitive to salinity changes especially in large volumes. If you suddenly changed the water salinity a great deal you may have shocked and killed off the established bacteria.

sigh, my poor puffers are paying the price for my ignorance, I truly feel horrible for what I've put them through.

By raising the salinity so fast you have also killed the bio filter in the 30g. You will be needing to do lots of large partials.

Yeah, ammonia levels were rising in the 30 gallon tank, everything I read suggested that brackish fish are tolerant of salinity changes, didn't mention the biofilter isn't. I have a couple established f/w tanks, can they be acclimated back to f/w until I get their 55 gallon tank properly cycled? I'll do anything I can to save these little guys.

I did a 50% wc and added safe start to the 30 gallon.

Drip them down to f/w at 0.002 per hour until their tank is stable

Have to agree with Bertie. You're in for a world of hurt, by changing the salinity like that. You are having a die off of all your fw bacteria, and you will have a complete cycle. Your fish may not make these changes, which is sad, but I agree, you need to put the filter back into freshwater, and slowly over a LONG period of time, raise the salinity to brackish. I think either way you go, this may not be a good situation for the fish. It would be ideal if you could get the fishstore to take them back, and let them try to recover in brackish water, while you cycle your tank at the salinity you ultimately want. Is that possible?

Unfortunately, returning them isn't possible. The little one passed away today. The larger one is acclimating to f/w his color is improving, he may pull through thanks to the sacrifice of his little buddy. I deeply regret my responsibility in failing the little guy.