The Puffer Forum

I am distraught. Sick to my stomach. Panicking.

Last night during feeding time, I performed my nightly headcounts and health checks. I watch the tank constantly, but feeding time is the best time to get counts and look closely at each fish. Everyone was absolutely fine to my eye. Happy and healthy.

This morning, I turn the tank lights on and immediately notice that something is terribly wrong. One of my DP girls had white "stuff", for lack of a better term, covering about half of her right side. She was bumping into things and did not appear to be able to see out of her right eye, or move her right fin. I assume that her gill movement on the right side was also restricted. My instincts told me that it must be some sort of fungus, but how could this overcome her literally overnight?

I flung a quarantine tank together as fast as I possibly could, but by the time it was set up and ready to move her in, it was too late. She was gone. I had a good cry before I got the camera out to take pictures to show you all, as I really need to know what this is not only for closure, but because I am very frightened for the rest of the tank.

Before the pictures, water parameters and other information.

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
20 nitrate (Planted tank. Never goes below 20.)

Water kept at 80 degrees F.

50% water changes, twice weekly, with Prime.
3x weekly plant ferts and Excel
30ppm CO2, measured via drop checker

5 otocinclus + their fry
7 kuhli loaches
5...4, I mean, dwarf puffers. (I got these just last week. 1 is still being treated for IPs, but the others are clear. Eating well and excellent feces.)

Let me know if I forgot anything.

Click the pictures to enlarge them and get good looks.

First two pictures are her right side with the affected area. I attempted for one picture to look how it looked in the water, which is whiter than the pictures can depict.

The last picture is her left side, which is normal, for comparison.







Whatever this is must surely be terribly aggressive for it to have manifested and killed my poor girl overnight.

Everyone else in the tank looks fine at the moment, but I know that I can't trust that now.

What can I do to treat the tank and kill off whatever is causing this? Pimafix/Melafix? Salt?

I'll be doing an extra water change as soon as I pull myself together here.

I am devastated to hear your bad news I'm so sorry for your loss and hope the rest of the tank will be ok. My thoughts are with you at this sad time

Thank you, Donna, for your thoughts. I am so upset right now.

I'm doing reading on fish fungi right now, but everything I'm reading seems to be coming down to water quality. I don't understand. I keep my water pristine. I always vacuum with each 50% water change, and I never leave food in to decay.

I'm wondering if it's possible that she had this infection when I purchased her, but it just hadn't manifested itself visually until now. It still doesn't make sense to me that it would become this visible overnight when just hours before, she appeared to be just fine.

My husband is stopping on his way home from work this evening with Pimafix and Melafix to keep in the fish cupboard for future emergencies, but I would really like to treat the tank as if every fish has this fungus, or whatever it is, and I just can't see it yet.

I won't do anything aside from a water change until some folks here tell me that it's safe to do so, though. I don't want to cause more harm, but I need whatever this is gone so that I don't lose any more of my babies.

What's your test kit and what size tank do you have?

Nuclear_Glitter wrote:What's your test kit and what size tank do you have?

I knew I was forgetting something. I'm sorry, I'm in such a haze right now.

29 gallons, and API freshwater liquid tests, expiring in... 2016, I believe.

[quote="kcartwright856"I knew I was forgetting something. I'm sorry, I'm in such a haze right now.

29 gallons, and API freshwater liquid tests, expiring in... 2016, I believe.[/quote]

It's no problem, I understand. You have an amazing waterchange schedule, and I have no idea why your DP got fungus over night, then died so quick. I suspect you're probably right that she had it and it never showed its ugly rear 'til now.

All of your inhabitants require around 30 gallons, and you have a lot in that 29. The DPs themselves, if you go off of 5 gallons per DP would have been taking up 25 gallons. Plus, we also need to look at the fact a standard 29 gallon actually holds about 24 gallons.

You keep your levels in check with your great waterchanges, but the stocking may still be causing some problems.

When you do the liquid test you're shaking the crap out of the bottles, right? I mean you really gotta pound them around, and especially the nitrate #2.

Let's see if maybe we can figure out something else that caused this. Have you made any changes, or added anything?

I seen you mentioned fry. Do all of them look healthy?

I go by the 5 gallons for the first puffer and 3 gallons per puffer thereafter guideline (Most prevalent guideline I've found online, and I believe that most veterans here also advocate this.) , which brings me to 17 gallons for the puffs. I do realize that I am at full capacity right now, all tank mates considered. I had ordered 3 otocinclus, but the seller was feeling generous and included 5 in my order. When my husband came home with the bag, I thought... well, we'll try it and see how it goes, eh? AqAdvisor has me at 104% capacity, which sounds about right.

The fry are as healthy as can be, and I move them to my plant clippings holding tank whenever I can find them. The otos spawn like rabbits. My female kuhlis are all developing eggs, though I think that may be normal and not necessarily a sign of breeding readiness. I'm really not sure on that one at all.

I shake the living daylights out of the tests! About 10 seconds for the all but the nitrate. The first nitrate drops go in as per directions, with the vial inverted a few times to mix. Then I give myself whiplash with the second bottle for a good 45 seconds and really do myself in when those drops go into the vial that I shake for 90 seconds to mix everything together.

I like to shake just a little longer than the directions, just to be sure. I let all vials sit for a full 5 minutes before recording the results.

As far as changes since the DPs came into my custody, no. As I said earlier, I've only had them just over a week now. Is it at all possible that she was already infected and that it only just now showed itself? I'm still puzzled as to how this happened literally overnight.

Furthermore, if this is a fungus, are such things contagious? Can I treat the entire tank safely? If it isn't a fungus and I do treat, does that harm my fish or their immune systems? Perhaps make any strains of nasties resistant to the medicine should I need to treat again in the future?

I thought everything was going well. I knew I'd run into problems eventually, but I figured that it would be ich or something, that I already have directions on how to treat. With this, I'm totally blind as to what to do!

So sorry...
sometimes no matter how hard we try to keep them healthy, they get sick & die. i'm fighting a huge fight with my prize GF. I do 90% weekly WC with him, yet he's got a disease I find is caused by poor water quality!

Pufferpunk wrote:So sorry...
sometimes no matter how hard we try to keep them healthy, they get sick & die. i'm fighting a huge fight with my prize GF. I do 90% weekly WC with him, yet he's got a disease I find is caused by poor water quality!

Thank you for your thoughts, PP. My thoughts are also with you and your fight alongside Francis. It is so discouraging to feel as though you are doing everything right, and yet tragedy.

Do you have an opinion on the matter of treating the tank with a round Pimafix/Melafix as a precautionary measure with the rest of the fish? I almost want to have medicine in the tank for a week or so, so that it can be fighting whatever this is for me overnight so that it doesn't take another fish before I can even blink.

Of course, any treatment would be in addition to the greatest prevention of all. Going to be doing my 50% changes daily for a week or so and vacuuming under every plant, rock, and piece of wood until I can be at peace.

I'm just very into WAAAY understocking, sorry. Anyway, yes, 5 gallons and 3 after, is what pretty much everyone here recommends.

I would be willing to bet she's been sick and you just now seen it. Whatever she was in before is probably what made her sick.

Since you have no clue what this is, treatment may be a bit difficult. I am no professional, but I always like to be overly cautious. I'd start by moving your plants to a quarantine tank. Now, definitely move all your fry; you can move them with the plants.

Now, do you know if otocinclus and kuhli loaches can be treated with salt? As far as I knew, they couldn't. However, most things that can't be treated with salt, can have 5-10 minute salt baths.

Anyway, you could remove the substrate and decoration from your 29 and rinse it thoroughly , and of course vacuum out the bare bottom tank. Do a large water change at this point, taking out 80-90%.

All of this is your choice, but for me I'd keep the stuff out of the tank and treat with a salt treatment, like I was treating ich, minus the heat. I'd treat for 3 days, then do another very large water change, and put everything back. Then treat with primafix and melafix for a week.

If your ottos and loaches can't be treated with salt, then I'd keep them in the quarantine tank with the fry and plants. The only treatment I'd give the adults would be a salt bath if they could survive it.

Where did your DPs come from? They may all be infected depending where they came from.

Mela/Pima wouldn't hurt. Just be sure there is enough O2 exchange in there.

I am with nuclear on stocking, I prefer to understock than get close and follow 5g per dp, however this won't have been caused by your stocking levels, and with the plants and 2x 50% weekly you couldn't have done more for water quality, I am with the its just one of those things explanation if that's what I can call it. Sometimes they just don't do as well as they should, follow the advise above as a safety net for the other inhabitants and go from there, sorry you lost one, also sorry if my post started negatively I am set in my ways and won't hold back on what I believe. I think i am getting old.

Ya I think this was one of those cases where he was sick at the lfs already and you couldn't have done anything else. Sorry for your loss still.

@OP I am so sorry for your loss. I know how it is to lose a new puffer. (I lost a sickly GSP due to reacting too slow.)

puffykid wrote:Ya I think this was one of those cases where he was sick at the lfs already and you couldn't have done anything else. Sorry for your loss still.

+1 I strongly suspect this is the case for both kcartwright856 and Pufferpunk as you both have shown to be good fishkeepers and done your research.

Thank you for the kind words, criticisms, and support, everyone. I really do appreciate it.

My tank is so heavily-planted and complicated that to follow Nuclear's plan of attack first really frightens me. I couldn't possibly do it without stressing everyone out to the extreme. I can't afford for anyone to lose their slime coats or immune systems due to stress right now.

I did look up Melafix/Pimafix in regards to the otos and kuhlis, and they seem to be safe. Most folks are recommending half of the usual dose, though. Also... why are there so many people claiming that Melafix and Pimafix are just snake oils that do nothing but take your money? They're being referred to as "all-natural useless crap". I was under the impression that they really do work. Plus, there isn't an alternative with sensitive fish.

Anyway... my plan right now is to go a week with half doses of both Melafix and Pimafix. If everyone seems fine next week, great. If not, I'll move on to Nuclear's plan.

Fins crossed.