The Puffer Forum

Water parameters - pH=7.5 , Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrates=30-40 and salinity=freshwater

Tank size= 125ltrs

Inhabitants: 4 Colomesus asellus, 2 Irrubescos, 9 Neon Rainbows, 9 Harlequin Rasboras, 4 Otos, 1 flash pleco (L204), 1 clown pleco, 1 siamese algae eater, 5 danios

I treat the tank once a month with Kusuri wormer plus, do 25% water changes every week with 50:50 RO:tap water to keep the hardness and nitrates down (my tap water has a nitrate level of 30).

The tank has been established for about 6 months and has been stable for 5.

My SAPs don't seem to have very good colours, at times they are dark and well defined but at other times they seem washed out. The 2 smaller SAPs are the most washed out. I am worried that they may be vitamin deficient as they eat a mixture of live brine shrimp (once a week), snails (about once a week due to supply issues), and prawns and mussels the rest of the time. I have read that prawns contain a lot of thiaminase that prohibits the uptake of vitamin B1 that is used to metabolise carbohydrates. I try to feed them peas but only the bigger 2 (both with the better colours) eat them. I have order some vitamin supplements off the internet but they won’t get here until next week.

The tank seems to work well with the Rainbows and Rasboras occupying the upper and mid regions, the plecos and algae eater at the bottom or on the wood, the otos on the glass and plants and the irrubescos chilling out amongst the stone and the SAPs all over the place.

Any ideas how I can boast there colours? I can't see any other sign of infection or disease in the tank. I have attached a picture:

Your tank is severely overstocked. That's large enough only for the puffers & tight at that.
They're teeth look a bit overgrown. At 6 months, they should be ready for a trim.

One in particular is in need of a trim and i have some cuticle nippers on order and have some Kusuri Masuizai as a sedative ( I understand that clove oil works by depriving the fish of oxygen and can cause long term damage).

In terms of stocking, the system manages very well with the waste (I have the internal U3 filter along with an external 1000lph with a UV light), the only issue could be around the swimming space or if the puffers feel harrassed. The SAPs are pretty gentle souls and show no agression what so ever. I may try taking the Rainbows out and the algae eater as they are probably the most agressive in the tank and the otos and plecs never come face to face with the puffers.

You cannot replace water volume with filtration. The tank is overstocked, I would want bigger just for the puffers. Also your algae eater will start beating up your other fish and gets very large

I treat the tank once a month with Kusuri wormer plus

Why? fish do not drink water, so treating their tank does nothing for IPs. Do they have signs of being infected with them? Treating any parasite 1x/month, can easily make them immune to the treatment.

Nitrates=30-40

25% water changes every week

the system manages very well with the waste

Not if that nitrate is so high. Thin out the stock, raise the WC to 50% weekly & it will remain lower (<20 is recommended).

My SAPs don't seem to have very good colours, at times they are dark and well defined but at other times they seem washed out.

Stress

Just to add this is a schooling species that needs a lot of swimming space. We are not trying to bash you but give straight to the point advise which will help your puffers live long, healthy and happy lives.

That tank is a septic tank, grossly overstocked and under changed. The situation will only get worse with time.

The stoking is inappropriare for 125 gallons, much less 125 liters.

Doubling the water changes would help but will not correct the issues.

You need to rethink what you want and need from your tank and re-home the other fish.

A couple of points:

I use the anti parasite medication by soaking food in it and then adding the mixture to the water. This is to try and address IP and external ones that I might not see. I take the point that redosing too often could selectively produce resistant strains. As the colours hasn't been as dark as i think they should be i have dosed as a precaution as I try to find the problem.

I try to keep nitrates down as much as possible but as i mentioned previously my tap water is hard with Nitrates of 30ppm. Even by diluting with RO water to soft water conditions (hardness of about 8dH) I start with a Nitrate level of just under 20ppm (I tested the shop RO water and got a reading of about 5ppm which I understand to be reasonable as RO isn't 100% efficient). This means that even a 75% water change (which is logistically difficult and I feel may stress the fish) my Nitrates will still be about 25ppm. If you have a suggestion of how I can get a better starting point it would be appreciated. I have tried to use Microlift which is supposed to help reduce nitrates but i am sceptical of its long term benefits. i have also considered a nitrate filter but these seem very expensive and take up more space than i can afford.

I am removing the Danios (if I can catch them) and algae eater tomorrow and will be re-homing the Rainbows and possibly Rasboras next weekend. I think removing the algae eater will help things.

I would love to get a bigger tank and may have the opportunity if i move house later in the year.

I appreciate your input.

Definitely thinning out the inhabitants, will help a great deal with the nitrate. So would a heavily-planted tank.

puffersmurf wrote:A couple of points:

I use the anti parasite medication by soaking food in it and then adding the mixture to the water. This is to try and address IP and external ones that I might not see. I take the point that redosing too often could selectively produce resistant strains. As the colours hasn't been as dark as i think they should be i have dosed as a precaution as I try to find the problem.

I try to keep nitrates down as much as possible but as i mentioned previously my tap water is hard with Nitrates of 30ppm. Even by diluting with RO water to soft water conditions (hardness of about 8dH) I start with a Nitrate level of just under 20ppm (I tested the shop RO water and got a reading of about 5ppm which I understand to be reasonable as RO isn't 100% efficient). This means that even a 75% water change (which is logistically difficult and I feel may stress the fish) my Nitrates will still be about 25ppm. If you have a suggestion of how I can get a better starting point it would be appreciated. I have tried to use Microlift which is supposed to help reduce nitrates but i am sceptical of its long term benefits. i have also considered a nitrate filter but these seem very expensive and take up more space than i can afford.

I am removing the Danios (if I can catch them) and algae eater tomorrow and will be re-homing the Rainbows and possibly Rasboras next weekend. I think removing the algae eater will help things.

I would love to get a bigger tank and may have the opportunity if i move house later in the year.

I appreciate your input.

I live in yorkshire and my tap water is also 30-40ppm from the tap but i have noticed it will start to drop quite quick. I think if you get more live plants that will help.

Cute puffers!

Good job on finding the other inhabitants homes.

As far as the nitrates go, get lots of floating plants. These will soak up nitrates really well.

My puffers are looking a lot stronger in colour and seem very happy swimming about all over the tank and spend very little time against the glass.

My tank is already quite heavily planted but have added some plants to try and form a carpet and have put some fast growing moss in there too, to soak up nitrates and hopefully be a spawing place for the irrubesco when they get older.

What floating plants would you suggest?

I think the reason for the colouration was stress, mainly caused by the algae eater which, i think was disturbing them at night when they are trying to rest.

Those algae eaters are buggers. My fahaka has given up fighting mine. My algae eater no longer wants to fight him for obvious reasons. Glad they are getting better, keep going dude

puffersmurf wrote: What floating plants would you suggest?

Frogbit, hornwort, water sprite, to name a few.