I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by Pufferpunk »

jus85411 wrote:honestly, if it was for sale somewhere, someone else would have purchased it if you did not. just be happy you came across him before someone who didnt know better but had the money to spend. get us more pictures :)
That is a total crap reason to buy a rare animal. They'll just take more of them out of the reproductive gene pool to be sold.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by Corvus »

I thought Richard Ross from the Steinhart was breeding them (2 years ago or so) and also a Japanese bred Metasepia tullbergi? They are actually two species hard to tell apart without examination of the cuttlebone (As Rich I think most in trade might be Metasepia tullbergi not pfefferi). Breeding won't likely happen with one specimen, though.

I don't know how rare they actually are, only have hear-say from Philippines to be not rare in some areas/seasons. However, as rare as they are in trade, I think its hard to significantly decrease their population by overcollecting. There's no real market due to the price tag and other factors especially destruction of the natural habitats in their range should show a much greater impact on their populations.I'll also cite Rich here with regard to this cuttlefish: "Personally, believe that the admiration of a species can be of benefit to its preservation in the wild rather than its detriment."

As a hobbyist I don't have much interest in keeping this species due to its short life, but I understand that people do and as long as the care is appropriate I won't judge them.

Also see here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/10/inverts
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by J-P »

Well since you already have it in your possession, read about them as much as you can. Corvus provided an excellent link which also provides even more reference links.

And yes, please update with LOTS of pictures. :D

For those that don't know...
Here is a cool vid of one taken off eastern Borneo: And yes, as Corvus pointed out, their habitat in that area is being damaged by deforestation and the palm industry.



One thing Dr. Shimek mentioned and I think it is 100% true... People see these vids and photos.. especially on Nat Geo and think they are wonderful. Well they are.. and one crops up and it becomes a "must have item" and then we get in, way over our heads. That is how I first found out about them.. I have a Documentary on my computer about them and thought "wow that is so cool, hey.. I have 2 tanks being set up maybe I should go for it." I then started asking questions. The resounding answer I got was "no" from nearly every corner I looked(and I looked a many a corner to justify the purchase); especially since this would have been my first cuttlefish. .

Well we all know the outcomes there... all we have to do is scroll through the hospital thread to see the mass number of people who have purchased a fish without knowing that a specialized species require specialized care.

And no Arny, I'm not bashing you in any way shape or form. What is done is done. Your success (I hope) or failure (I hope not) will become a teaching tool for others. Your observations and insight are valuable. I just hope no one, who has already read this thread, says "Wow that's neat!! and it is payday!" and goes and gets one.
Last edited by J-P on Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by suvattii2012 »

The common ones still look nice aswell, they must live in colder water if there around england lol
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by jus85411 »

Pufferpunk wrote:
jus85411 wrote:honestly, if it was for sale somewhere, someone else would have purchased it if you did not. just be happy you came across him before someone who didnt know better but had the money to spend. get us more pictures :)
That is a total crap reason to buy a rare animal. They'll just take more of them out of the reproductive gene pool to be sold.
i understand thats a total crap reason, but its the reality. a frugal person looking for something "cool" and unique that has an aquarium would buy it in a heartbeat, leaving the pet store in the same position. even if it stayed and died there, if it died quickly they would write it off as being sick upon arrival and most likely will try another one. the same with jellyfish and shark eggs. none should be sold, but are available because somewhere out there, someone will be dumb enough to buy and throw them in a 50 gallon tank and come back for more when it dies. IMO if it was or is in a pet store, it will always be in a pet store. it may not be the same one, but its out there elsewhere
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by Pufferpunk »

By US not buying one, that's one less removed from the ocean. It's like saying we should rescue puppymill pups, because someone has to buy them. It's still perpetuating the cycle.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by J-P »

jus85411 wrote: That is a total crap reason to buy a rare animal. They'll just take more of them out of the reproductive gene pool to be sold.
i understand thats a total crap reason, but its the reality. a frugal person looking for something "cool" and unique that has an aquarium would buy it in a heartbeat, leaving the pet store in the same position. even if it stayed and died there, if it died quickly they would write it off as being sick upon arrival and most likely will try another one. the same with jellyfish and shark eggs. none should be sold, but are available because somewhere out there, someone will be dumb enough to buy and throw them in a 50 gallon tank and come back for more when it dies. IMO if it was or is in a pet store, it will always be in a pet store. it may not be the same one, but its out there elsewhere
The supposition is that if it doesn't sell, the pet shop will not re-order it. Why would it keep trying to sell an item that is not marketable? That is more on the ethical side of things. On the practical side, suppose you got this lovely creature and it only lived a few months? Having the funds and contacts, would you purchase it again? Most likely.. again the shop keeps bringing them in because you are purchasing them. Note #1 because they are alive they have not had a chance to breed. That is a fact. Once they breed they die. Their offspring carry on the family. Remove 1 and you remove 100's. Remove 100's to a couple pet stores and you remove 1000's. Given a 1 sale to 10 ratio (for sales purposes.. 1 sale will allow you to purchase 10 more) and you are into HUGE numbers. Thus, perpetuating the cycle.

No, I stand by the belief that these should not be in the trade. If someone were to truly want to keep one as a pet.. they should be special order only.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by jus85411 »

so none of you guys think that if petco came across one or some of these, they wouldnt stock them again if the first one or two didnt sell but died anyway? i can see them stopping stock of them if after a few tries they didnt sell and died instead. but i think most corporate(privately owned would be a different story as they might not take those chances, or may try 1 and be done if it wasnt successful) would stock something this unique just for a buck. if its in the wild where man or woman can explore, it will be in the trade unless its on the endangered species list

im not trying to ration having this fish in the trade or captivity anywhere, but in reality if it swims, its cool looking and is not endangered, there is a market for it. sad but true. its like all the other discussions about keeping fish in general, none of it should have been started, but you can stop it from happening. some diver/collector, somewhere, will capture anything out of the ordinary. and one person capturing this and pawning it off making money just opens the flood gates to market to other fish shops etc
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by jus85411 »

sorry for the double post, just looked at the video O.O do they really pulsate like that?
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by suvattii2012 »

How come there aloud to be sold if there so rare? is there nothing to protect them.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by J-P »

a diver or collector is different than having a 3rd world country raking in all they can to sell to a chain. VERY different.


I know for a fact that if a product doesn't sell, we drop the line. It might take a while to do so but corporations are in it for profitability. If there are no sales there is no reason to keep the product. The product on hand may become waste or reduced to clear out, but it will no longer be carried. That is my job. (as a pricing analyst) In a chain situation where a line isn't being profitable, the entire chain will be forced to drop that particular line and it becomes "special order only". If there are not enough special orders, they will drop the vendor. Again, that is what I do... professionally.

In a mom and pop shop it is different. Every order is "special order" and if 1 item sells that can re-sell ten others.. most shops will do just that. Order 10 more. They are on par... no money lost. Don't buy it and they may decide not to carry it.

A quote from an LFS that I tried to order puffers from:
Hey, I have a hard time selling a $6.00 gold fish... why would I carry a $40.00 puffer?
The same principal applies.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by J-P »

suvattii2012 wrote:How come there aloud to be sold if there so rare? is there nothing to protect them.

because we really don't know squat about them. There are a few scientists working on them but you can count those numbers on both hands.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by J-P »

jus85411 wrote:sorry for the double post, just looked at the video O.O do they really pulsate like that?

yes... and you should see them pulse when they attack!! :D OMG!!!! They are truly tiny... usually 5" in length. Their double arms extent to catch the prey faster than you can blink an eye. Absolutely fascinating creatures. We are very lucky to have Arny to share his experiences with us. It is also very unfortunate that they were found in the trade.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by Pufferpunk »

so none of you guys think that if petco came across one or some of these, they wouldnt stock them again if the first one or two didnt sell but died anyway?
At least WE wouldn't add to the problem. I may not be saving many pigs or cows by not eating mammals but at least I'm not contributing to their torturous lives.
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Re: I've just got a Flamboyant Cuttlefish :D

Post by suvattii2012 »

Pufferpunk wrote:
so none of you guys think that if petco came across one or some of these, they wouldnt stock them again if the first one or two didnt sell but died anyway?
At least WE wouldn't add to the problem. I may not be saving many pigs or cows by not eating mammals but at least I'm not contributing to their torturous lives.

Do you eat no pork or do you buy from local farms or places you know they lived well?
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