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Deep Sand Bed
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:45 am
by Terrance
Re: Deep Sand Bed
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:54 pm
by RTR
Yes, FW DSB and/or plenums* do work. I use such routinely.
*Plenums are simply restricted depth DSB which have a plenum layer of water beneath the substrate layer. The deep layer of water allows ready diffusion within the plenum, but no direct connect with the water column above the substrate. Plenums tanks, properly set, cannot generate methane or hydrogen sulfide as can DBB due to their restriction of the ammonia to DO (dissolved oxygen) levels above that require for generation of those toxic gasses. This blocks some of the worst mis-handlings possible with DSB and markedly reduces the problems when unsuitable fish are housed in such tanks.
But, DSB or plenums are not quick or particularly easy to establish. They can be stable over more years than most hobbyists maintain their tanks. I consider ten years or more stability to be quite good and should be routine. To me setting a tank for less than 10 year operation is a waste of time and materials. No, I do not keep all of my tanks going for at least 10 years, but that is the figure I use when designing them.
IME, FW DSB or plenums tend to require three or four to eight or more months to mature, versus 2-4 weeks for conventional aerobic bacteria biofiltration. But in fairness, DSB or plenum tanks do a heck of a lot more waste processing than just ammonia oxidation to nitrite and nitrite oxidation to nitrate. DSB or plenums can and do reduce nitrate to ammonia and that ammonia to nitrogen gas - which diffuses or bubbles out of the subatrate to the atmosphere. Thus these are the only FW hobby tanks which have more than the short ammonia to nitrate pathway available and the only FW tanks which can dump nitrate without water changes and/or plant or algae mass harvesting. But no, they do not IME dump enough nitrogen gas to elimimate the need for water changes. DSB or plenum FW tanks are the only FW tank IME which can approach SW FOWLR - skimmer + macroalgae rerfugim in reducing the requirement for FW water partials. IME, the FW setup is not quite as effective as the SW one. I suspect that difference or gap will be difficult to close fully, as the skimmer function is simply not available to us in FW. Despite Ms Walstad's writing to the contrary, I do not and will not ever operate any tank by her supposed "scientific" techniques. But that is another discusion entirely.
I also disagree with the author of the WWM site article in that I would never suggest that any hobbyist who is not an advanced microbiologist at least should evet consider adding Tubifex worms to their tank. The potential hazards far outweigh any possible use of such high-risk critters. NIMFT, not ever.
Re: Deep Sand Bed
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:57 pm
by Terrance
Are these deep sand bed as effective in a refugium? The article described DSB for the main tank.
Re: Deep Sand Bed
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:26 am
by RTR
Yes in general. But many FW DSB are functionally DSB in planted tanks w/deep substrates.
Many folks have issues with anything other than single-tank systems. I am rather the opposite - I find it frequently easier to segregate special functions in separate tanks which are linked to the display.
Re: Deep Sand Bed
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:44 am
by J-P
Terrance wrote:Are these deep sand bed as effective in a refugium? The article described DSB for the main tank.
I am one on Dr. Shimek's side for this topic. They question is "Why use a DSB?" If you are using it to complete the nitrogen cycle then it should be in the display. You won't get the flow, and debris needed to adequately feed the bed, thus in turn completing the cycle. It can to a degree, but since the housing on the remote is typically smaller than the main it is not nearly as effective. Then you have water flow rates to contend with. Too much flow and the water is being turned over too quickly to allow the DSB to do its job. Too low flow and you're not turning over the volume needed to keep the display on par.
Once you start toying with the idea then you can go well beyond a DSB (as RTR mentioned). You can grow different plants in there and various critters as a cleaning crew etc.. but that is more of a specialized display (or filter) linked to the main display. A remote DSB (alone), I don't think will ever be as effective as one in the display.