The Puffer Forum

So one way to decreasing aggression is to heAvily stock a tank so that the puffers (lets say 2 f8) can each claim an isolated area. Also let them grow up together helps too.What if both methods doesnt work? Besides seperating the two, what other methods can you try to minimize aggression. Lets also assume its a 40g with great water quality.

How about keeping their teeth slightly overgrown (leave enough opening in their mouth to still eat) so that they have a harder time biting each other?
A larger tank would probably help.
Would reaaranging the tank decor make things worse?
Perhaps feeding them at the same time on opposite side of the tank? (maybe they fight during meals)

Since i heard f8 are one of the more intellegent puffers, is it possible to train them to behave appropriately (somehow, someway use positive reinforcement)?

Thoughts? Any personal experience?

if they have enough space for food in their mouth I am gonna guess they can still nip fins.

Bigger tank and more decor are most likely the best options to prevent aggression. Though if the puffers are really out to get eachother I don't think even that will help.

On a more comical note, perhaps this is an option?

+1, if they can open enough for food, there is enough opening to get fins also. it wouldnt necessarily be the biting either that would stress them out if they were overly aggressive. just mere chasing would be enough over time to hurt the fish and weaken their immune systems with stress. your best bet is to find a tank full of F8's, and take a look to see which look the best, if they look the best(no chewed up fins etc), they are likely the most aggressive. then pick ones that are still personable and responsive to you at the tank, but obviously had some chasing done to them with beat up tails(easily fixed with melafix). even then though, once the alphas are taken away you might have one that feels like a little bada-- with the mean ones gone, then he might turn the table lol

i dont think there is really a way to stop aggression, you might see a difference when your around over time, but you want to worry about what goes on in the tank without you(or anyone else) around. puffs are up to no good when they arent being watched or arent distracted by other things around them. maybe think about some things in the tank to occupy them. i used to stock ghost shrimp in my tank strictly for hunting purposes and something for them to do if they got bored. also good clean up while they lasted

+1
Allowing their teeth to over grow is not a safe option, and as started, if they can still eat, they can still bite.
If they have decided to hate each other, three is no amount of decor or space to minimize already established aggression. Eventually one puffer will likely die. Either the one getting picked on from stress, or the one doing the bullying will get attacked by the other in an attempt to destroy his rival.

Heavily stocking tanks and allowing teeth to grow too long are bad practice IMO

+1 to bertie 83's comments.

Hunters require territory. In the wild, hunters segregate themselves by controlling their territory. Captivity is and always will be artificial. We have little of no information on the size and time span of fish's territories in the wild, but Mother Nature (in the time during which any given species has developed and existed) has set territorial needs appropriate to the health and life of each species. We can try to provide water conditions and territory to meet certain requirements which are "givens" in the wild. But we do not have enough information to provide for the full life cycle of any puffer species save one, the dwarf puffer. There we do have enough info and experience to provide water volumes and footprints and tank setup and long handling through multiple generations. That is one spies in a worldwide famity, and that species is far from characteristic of the family as a whole.

The sort of handling which is done with some other families such as the Cichlids may apply to some setups suitable for puffers. The all-male (or all-female) aggregations of excessive numbers of one-gender fish in in an area too small for territories to be established are quite frankly IMHOP horrible tanks which might as well have pickled fish in them. Those fish can show none of their unique behaviors and life styles, nor can they reproduce. That is, if nothing else, infinitely boring. Who would want to maintain such tanks for the lifespan of the fish. A penitentiary for fish? NIMFTs, thank you very much anyway.

If you cannot do it right, why do you want to do it at all? If you want to over-ride the built-in natural behavior and instincts of the fish, why do you want to keep them in captivity? Buy adults and turn them over to taxidermists for mounting on the wall. Then they only require dusting periodically. Or enclose them in museum cases and just clean the glass.

FWIW

Since the assumption is having 2 f8 in a 40g tank, heavily stocking a tank meant putting a lot of decor in the tank.

So keeping them occupied with other stuff such as chasing ghost shrimp is a good one.

I'm a little slow when deciphering the full meaning of RTR's post.

If that doesn't work, then the owner has no other way of keeping the F8 with each other, then maybe return the aggressive one and try another F8.

No other good suggestions?

The best idea is to keep them singly. Failing that a massively oversized tank with lots and lots of decor and many snails and shrimp to chase might work. However it depends on the individual puffers. I know what you are getting at and dont want to sound like i am bashing you lol

probably the best suggestion in this situation would be to get both, and keep a very close eye on them for the first few days. dont just watch them, but study their fins/body each day. make sure there arent any new marks or rips on them. i had two F8 together with no problem. they hung out all day, legit seemed like best friends lol. they would tag team clam on the half shell i put in and i saw them chasing after the same ghost shrimp too at times lol. chances are they will be ok together, but again they are puffers. its really independent on the aggression level of specific puffers. and also dont forget that they may spend days/weeks/months/years "happily living together" but then one day one of them might decide its sick of having the other around and it could start to harass or even kill off the other

bertie 83 wrote:The best idea is to keep them singly. Failing that a massively oversized tank with lots and lots of decor and many snails and shrimp to chase might work. However it depends on the individual puffers. I know what you are getting at and dont want to sound like i am bashing you lol

Its alright i dont see any kind of bashing. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page

I understand rtr's info now. A full night of sleep and a light day at work really helps process info when im at home

Territoriality is built into the critters who survived due to controlling hunting territories. It is not switched on or off at will, it is part of survival. Fish with richer territories grow larger and stronger, thus are better or more able to breed and pass on their territoriality. In captivity we try to keep all of our fish alive. Mother Nature does not. She selects the strongest and fittest. Captivity is artificial and effectively anti-Nature. That is a given. We remove selection pressures which are vital in maintaining strong species in the wild.

For those species which are captive bred, we also select for traits which are rare or uncommon and impractical in the wild, such as modified coloring or even albinism. What is acceptable in captive fish may be strongly anti-survival in the wild. Look at feral goldfish - within a very few generations all of the captive-selected modifications of color and form and scalation are either hugely diminished or totally eradicated.

If we ever breed puffers through multiple generations, some territoriality will be bred out, but it is so basic to wild survival that it is questionable if those fish could be used to re-populate the wild. Nature would have to reselect for maximum territoriality.

Terrance, my own experience with having two F8s has made me a diehard believer in keeping them as singletons. I got my two as babies in June. On the surface, they appeared to get along well, swam together happily, etc. My 29 gallon tank was very heavily decorated with multiple hiding places and broken lines of sight.

But over time, one of the puffs became extremely dominant. He ate about 75% of the food, chasing the meeker puff away at feeding time. At other times, he would randomly charge and chase the other fish, then go back to happily swimming around a moment later. It wasn't a constant thing, and didn't result in bite wounds or fights, but it just didn't seem fair to the more timid puffer to keep him in that stressful environment. I'm sure there's also stress involved for the dominant fish, maintaining his territory.

I made the decision to rehome one of them, and I'm glad I did. It's only been a couple days, but already the puff I kept (the aggressive, dominant one) seems more relaxed in the tank. He also seems to be swimming more actively throughout the aquarium, which is nice to see.

Just my two cents about keeping multiple F8s. I'm in the "don't do it" camp.

Sometimes 3 or more are better than just 2. It diminishes one on one aggression. Of course, you'd need a bigger tank.

+1 to PP's comment. Two can go top dog/underdog with a vengeance. 3-5 are more likely to co-exist (in larger tanks of course). But you may still need to remove a hyper-dominant fish after they are all mature. Spreading out the food helps. It is much better than all in one spot.

But these are not schooling fish in captivity. Adults are territorial.