The Puffer Forum

Hey everybody! I have been lurking on the forum for a few weeks and I am in the beginning stages of setting up my 20 gallon long, figure eight tank. I had just set up an account and posted a question the other day but the forum seemed to have glitched and deleted my question and account. Oh well, I'm back, and thanks to those who had begun answering my questions before it got deleted. (I am also having trouble accessing parts of the library)

Anyways, I have been running a fishless cycle for about 7 days and have just begun to add some plants from my community tank. I have moved some Java Fern and Anubias. I have also added established gravel from my 36g community tank below the new aragonite sand and added used filter media to the new filter. I understand that the java ferns should be able to at least survive (grow?) in the SG eventully needed for the puffer, which seems to be 1.005 from what I have seen. I was wondering if anyone has had success with any other brackish plants and low tech lighting(20-40w). Specifically, I was wondering what plants would be better for the foreground of the tank.

I have also set up a small 3 gallon tank to breed ramshorn and pond snails. What temperature should the snail tank be kept at? I have very few snails as the store claimed to only have a few small ones. How fast is it possible to build a small colony from 4 snails? I will be getting the puffer in a few days. I will post pictures soon. Thanks for the help!

Sounds like you're doing everything just fine!
I'm not so sure about brackish plants, I have skimmed here & there that they are few and far between, but someone else can attest to that better than I can.

As for the snails, they do better in warm tanks--mine runs naturally around 82 degrees F, I believe. Keep them well-fed with algae wafers, as well as veggies on a veggie clip like lettuce, zucchini, cucumber (i give mine spinach leaves because i eat a lot of baby spinach salad), and what I have read & it seems to work well is feed them more than you think they would. Snails will reproduce more if they have a large food supply. Just make sure you clean out their water a LOT because they are poop monsters. I think it takes about a week or two for the eggs to hatch, and then another week for them to be more than just little white specks all over your tank. The most frustrating part is waiting for them to be a useful size, I've had my tank running for several weeks, but most of my snails are still too small to be anything other than a light snack.

I'm going to go find you an important link regarding algae wafers, too.

Watersprite is a plant that can grow in low end brackish. You can keep your figure 8 in 1.003 - 1.005.
The snail tank temp 76° - 78°, they can live in cooler water, but I think they breed faster when the water is warmer.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28251

Okay there's the link about algae wafers/fish food in general. Make sure whatever you're feeding your snails doesn't contain ethoxyquin, because if you're feeding it to your snails, you're also feeding it to your puffer.
Hikari & Aqueon are two companies that are definitely safe.

+1

Wow thanks, never would have guessed. I have a feeling my generic algae wafers might have that ingredient...I'll get something better tomorrow.

You don't need to go to SG1.005 because SG1.003 at 25DegC will be fine. At SG1.003 you have a number of choices of plants that will do really well, you're lighting is low so you'll struggle to grow the like of Lotus Zenkerri. But these should do fine (apologies in advance for spelling) and I grow them in my F8 tank:

Aponogenton Crispus.
Sagitaria Subulatta.
Cryptocoryne Wendtii
Java Fern
Java Moss
Bacopa monnieri (may struggle at 1WPG)
Ceratopteris Thallictroides (Water Sprite/Indian Fern) - Floating plant
Hornwort - Floating plant

One that hasn't worked for me but seems to have done for others:
Anubias (I tried Anubias Barteri Nana and I'm aware that it shouldn't be planted in the substrate)

If you had higher light then you'd be able to grow many others like;
Cryptocoryne Ciliata.
Lotus Zenkerri (Tiger Lilly)
Crinum Calimustratum
Crinum Natans

There is a large list on here http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/to ... h-aquaria/ some of which have worked for me but some haven't

I have to disagree on the substrate set-up and on the early planting.

Hawkeye wrote, in part:

"I have also added established gravel from my 36g community tank below the new aragonite sand..."

That does not work. First, you cannot layer gravel under sand. Substrates layer themselves withe smalles particles at the bottom and the largest on top, so over time the aragonite will be on the bottom and the and the gravel on the top, cutting the aragonite off from direct water contact except by diffusion - which is a waste of the aragonite. Second, if the gravel was added to add nitrification bacteria, that should have exposed in any case directly to the water flow, and preferably in a mesh bag for later removal. It the aragonite is over 1/4" thick, the nitrification bacteria may well be suffocated by burying it under the aragonite.

Generally it is not a good idea to plant a tank while fishless cycling is in process. The ammonia levels in fishless are great for algae promotion. It is asking for issues. Pl;ants need not be introduced until after the nitrification bacteria are fully established. F-8s are not fish for heavily planted tanks in any case, so the plants may aid in ammonia and nitrate absorption, but are not primary in this use, the biofilter is much mor important.

HTH

Thanks for the plant help, it has been slightly confusing as some people claim to not be able to keep plants in brackish well at all and others seem to have great success. I am considering ditching the hydrometer in favor of a refractometer if it allows me to control salt levels more closely. Also, thanks for the criticism RTR, its always welcome, luckily I have plenty of time to get everything at least close to being right before I actually get my F8 puffer. I guess I should clarify what I did with the gravel. At most I buried about 1 handfull of larger grained gravel in small area below the filter intake. There is definitely less than 1/4 inch of aragonite covering it now as the flow from the filter has slightly uncovered it. It would not be the biggest deal in the world to scoop it out again if that is the recommended action, but I believe it is a small enough amount that it would not be a huge deal as I think it still has some water flow. I was under the impression from reading on another forum that the mulm? had a great deal of beneficial bacteria.

Is another reason for the plants causing a problem with the biofilter also that they uptake ammonia and nitrogen that the bacteria otherwise would have had? I had waited for some signs of a cycle before adding plants, but once again I could remove them if needed right back to my community tank. Is this recommended?

Thanks for all the help. I am posting pictures, any criticisms/suggestions of my aqua-scape are greatly appreciated. I am new to aquascaping. The snails seem to be more active now that I got the temperature up as well.

That is a truly lovely setup for an F8. He/she is going to LOVE that tank! Those large rocks are really striking.

I think your tank looks good for 1 F8. I might add more plants for more places to hide/explore

Thank you! It seems this forum is definitely the place to be for puffer owners..lots of bad info out there. I look forward to keeping you all updated on my tank.

Now I am just trying to decide whether to risk adding a pair of BBG's... Is it recommended to introduce them at the same time as the puffer, prior, or after. I can just imagine the puffer chomping them down immediately if I put them in after...

I think before is better. in my experience with my puffers(not f8s) anything that goes in their tank they think is food. My GSP will fly across the tank to nail anything that goes in, but leaves everything that was there before she was alone

Ok, I may try that eventually. Also, is there a high chance of IP's in this species? Should I treat anyways? I can't seem to access the articles in the library about what medication to treat a F8 with if needed.

Definitely treat for IPs. Anti parasite medication like Jungle fizz tablets or Tetra Parasite Guard tablets are good. What I did (with the instruction of everyone here) mash a fresh clove of garlic into a little bit of tank water in a tupperware, and then let it sit for a little while. then i'd strain the garlic-water into a different tupperware with a net and toss the garlic. then i'd put some frozen food into the garlic-water to thaw, and drop in a broken piece of Tetra tablet into the mix. Let it sit for about 40 minutes. Strain again, dumping the garlic-water-medication mix, and then fed the medicated food to Lola. She was really really picky though, and would only eat medicated bloodworms. People have also been able to inject the medication directly into the food, but I have no access to needles.

Here's a thread from when I was treating Lola & all the help people offered to me: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28179