The Puffer Forum

Hello!

My name is KC and I live in Millersburg, PA with my husband, our Pembroke Welsh Corgi (Mollie), and our ex-feral feline (Madeline). I'd like to think that the various fauna in our wildlife sanctuary of a backyard are our pets as well. Small woodland creatures, various songbirds, waterfowl, bald eagles, and the aquatic life of the Susquehanna river all share our home.

I registered for this forum a while back so that I could gather information about puffers until the time was right to become an owner. It looks like the time is growing near, so I decided that an introduction would be in order. Before I move to the sub-forum that I suppose I will belong to after decisions are made, I'd like to ask for some opinions to help me find the direction I need.

I suppose I'll start with the basics. I'm not a complete newcomer to fish-keeping, so I am familiar with the simpler tasks involved in aquarium upkeep such as cycling, water changes, water testing, basic hardware maintenance, etc. My experience with anything beyond the basics, though, is limited to the reading I've done here. I'll make a list here of everything that I currently have and am familiar with using.


Tank: 29 gallon (fully cycled and stable at the moment)
Substrate: Pea-sized gravel
Filtration: Undergravel filter with basic powerhead rated to 50 gallons
Heating: 100 watts, submersible
Lighting: Standard bulb that came with the tank hood
Decorations: Large rocks, smaller river rocks, pottery, driftwood in all sizes, no plants currently


So! That's what I'm working with at the time of writing this. I plan to make changes as necessary, although the tank size will not be changing. Here's where I got stuck! What kind of puffer to get? I'll share my current thought process on this. What initially drew me to puffers several years ago were the dwarf puffers. I fell in love with the little buggers, but I knew it wasn't time yet. Fast forward to the present, after a lot of research done on this site, and I've learned that I have more options! DPs, a F8, a GSP...! It's almost overwhelming. However... cost is somewhat of a concern. (I know, I know... wrong hobby, right? ) I don't plan to get any puffers until I have the necessary equipment, which I've budgeted to acquire slowly over the next few months, but it will still be a bit tight financially. The type of puffer that I choose will determine where that money goes, if I'm understanding correctly. (Let's see how many times I can use the word understand in one post. Ready... go!)

It is my understanding that a GSP would thrive better in a marine environment, which could be quite costly to me initially. A F8 seems slightly more realistic in the financial sense initially with the brackish water, but I understand that it can be difficult to maintain the correct levels and that the salt can become costly in the long-run and to be honest, I'm not quite sold on the F8 yet. A small colony of DPs could work, if I understand correctly, but I would need to purchase a lot of plants to break line-of-sight. The plants would mean investing in better lighting and other products to make sure that they thrive. I do like the idea of a planted tank, though.

Based on the information I've given, which I can provide more if needed, I'd like some opinions on the direction I should go. I want to make sure that I make the best decision possible so that I can have a happy and healthy puffer(s).

Thank you so much for your time in advance. I really like this community!

-KC

welcome! im in pennsylvania as well, pottstown/gilbertsville to be exact. the first thing i noticed is the undgergravel filter. they are not generally recommended anymore, although it is your choice, but the cleaning of it would be a project in itself. they get waste trapped between the trays and under the gravel over time. and in order to get a thorough cleaning you would need to take it out and put back in which cant be done(at least easily) without taking all gravel and decor out. IMO your best bet is a HOB filter, aquaclear for example with a small powerhead for water movement, so that maintenance is easy.

you are correct that over time, brackish becomes more expensive than marine. both are pricey to set up, as with any living thing, but marine would give you more flexibility down the line with going longer between water changes, cool looking tank mates if your puffer allows it. it also allows for a more natural look that they would see in the sea. for a GSP though, the tank is pushing it so you wouldnt have that flexibility later on. 30 is the recommended minimum, but many many folks here would say that they recommend at least a 40, a 55 even better! GSP's get to the size of a small nerf football. about 6 inches long and chubby

if your not ready to take the plunge into marine, then i would go with DP's or SAP's. forget which ones do better in captivity cause i have never really done too much research on them since i dont own them or really interested in it at the moment, but i think its the DP's. i believe they also dont require the dentistry that most puffers do, but someone else might correct me on that. puffers have platelets that grow constantly as their "teeth". similar to a rabbit/guinea pig. if they cannot bite something to wear them down they will continue to grow until they cannot eat anymore and look like they have buck teeth sticking out. so most puffers require a hard shelled diet of snails, clams, mussell, crabs/crab legs. as well as some softer foods: shrimp, frozen bloodworms/mysis/mussell/clam cubes. the more variety the better.

from my experience though, you will set up the 29 gallon(the exact size i started with) and want bigger everytime you look at the tank lol. i went from a 3 gallon "holding cell" when he was 1 1/2 inches, to a 29, to a 75 and back down to a more aesthetically pleasing 54 corner tank which i currently have(no puffer anymore though for now. if i were you i would go to craigslist, find a nice 55-100 given you have the space, and go for it with a GSP. the money you dont have to put in right away as long as you have the right equipment to start with. you will have him started in your tank as FW, as most pet stores have them this way, then after a few months of researching and hoarding equipment, you can start the acclimation process of at most .002 SG a week. you can do this as slow or as fast as you want, just dont surpass the .002/week jump. you run the risk of killing off your beneficial bacteria.

also if you dont mind me asking, how did you cycle the tank? how is it holding its cycle? again welcome to the forum and i hope your not scared away

Thank you for the swift response!

Haha, and yes... with the undergravel filter. I was expecting to replace it, but I wanted to wait to see what was recommended to me! A HOB filter sounds perfectly reasonable. You are suggesting that I would take out the undergravel filter, add the HOB filter, and then keep my existing powerhead for movement and aeration, correct?

I haunt Craigslist constantly every day and we do have a lot of tanks and equipment floating around in our area, luckily! A larger tank at the moment isn't in the budget, but I can see your point with wanting to upgrade in the future. It may be a possibility in the distant future.

The teeth! Yes, I read about them, and I have to say that I'm excited about all the different foods they'll require. It sounds like a lot of fun. Question about the teeth, though... do they bite? It sounds silly, but I'm rather terrified of the answer. I'm not excited about being armpit-deep in a tank to clean things and then getting bitten!

Anyway... I don't mind any questions! I figure the more information I can give, the more I can get in return. It's been a long time since the tank was set up, so I can't remember exactly how I cycled it, but it was a fishless method. The tank hasn't had any ammonia or nitrite spikes for at least a year now.

It's currently home to a handful of cichlids with two accidental breeding pairs. My brother and his wife fell in love with them and asked if they could have them after the move. I'll be sad to see them go, but at least I can visit plenty and this gives me an opportunity to explore the puffers that I've always wanted.

I'm prepared to "start over" with the cycling if need be. I'm not sure how that comes into play when changing your fish as I've never had to do it.

Hopefully this answers your questions!

Welcome to the neighborhood !!!

I also agree with scrapping the UG filter in favor of a HOB. I suggest Aquaclear because they are widely available, trustworthy, and last forever. The media chamber makes cleaning a snap and gives the greatest flexibility for media.
If you switch over from the UG filter then the tank may need to be cycled again until the media in the HOB establishes.

If you go with DP's then you can fit a few of them in there I think...maybe a few dithers too. Not sure of appropriate tank mates...no experience with DP's.
You can pick up a 24-36" Coralife Dual bulb T5 light fairly cheap and they work great for planted tanks with 6700 or 10,000K bulbs.

I would not suggest SAP's in a 29 gal tank as they need lots of swimming space.

A Figure 8 puffer is a great choice and not that difficult or expensive to keep IME. You would need to pick up a hydrometer or refractometer that reads low-end brackish levels...and if you raise the salinity by .002 sg per week then you can easily maintain the biological filter. You would need to pick up marine salt for the tank but you would be aiming for 1.003 to 1.005 sg so the amount of salt used each week would be small.
With a 29 gal you could have a F8 and some Bumblebee gobys to keep him company.

Whatever puffer you choose, you will need to set up another small tank to breed your own snails. They are a necessity and can be bred in a very simple set up.

Thank you, Blaine!

Yes, I will definitely ditch the undergravel filter and go with the recommendations here. I want to make sure that everything is perfect! Doing a fresh cycle will be no problem. Anything for my pets!

Snail breeding... sounds fun! I have a little 3 gallon hex in the attic. I wonder if that would work? If it would, I imagine that would be perfect to set on the desk and watch while I work!

A 3 gal would be perfect. You could breed some snails and even some Cherry shrimp for the new puff. Great desktop addition.
You can pick up a small sponge-type filter (air driven) that works well in small tanks with small critters.

I agree--F8s are a perfect choice for that tank. I kept 2 F8s & a few tank mates in a 29 for many years. Low-end BW SG of 1.003-5 is not very expensive to keep at all.

I get to breed shrimp, too?! Oh man! Maybe I can get that little breeding tank set up here soon so that I'll have plenty of food for the puffers by the time I gather the supplies and get a new cycle stable.

F8s would be perfect, huh? I'm literally biting my lip over here. The decision is killing me. Maybe I should take a trip to That Fish Place and watch them to see if I can fall in love?

I also am reading that plants can be harder to keep in brackish... even the java ferns and moss. Or maybe I just read the accounts of some unlucky folks. Then again, I don't suppose I need to have plants. But I'd really like them.

I have a few hydrometers around that I use for brewing mead, beer, and wine. Are they the same thing? Sorry, I don't mean to sound stupid! If they're the same, I could sacrifice one to the fish! I suppose getting one for its intended purpose wouldn't be difficult, though. Hah.

Thanks, guys. I'm really enjoying this!

I think salinity hydrometers are different. At low-end BW, those plants should be fine.

What is the realistic workload like of a brackish tank as opposed to freshwater?

I read the post here on making brackish water and it seems overwhelming. I don't think I have the space for a container 3/4 the size of my tank to mix water in, plus I would need another heater and other supplies to make the water. And with water changes, it would mean that the living room would turn into mixing land at least once a week!

With freshwater, I've always just filled a one gallon bucket from the tap to treat with conditioner and bring to temperature, one bucket at a time. It doesn't take up much space on the counter and it's easy for my weakling arms to manage.

Am I making this out to be more difficult than it is? I don't want to risk becoming lazy when it comes to taking care of the puffers because of the involvement of the water.

For BW.....You would need a container that is large enough to pre-mix the water for water changes...so 29 gal tank...30-50% WC= 10-15 gal bucket or plastic garbage can. You would need to mix the salt and water 24 hrs ahead of time and a powerhead of some type (even a small one) to mix the salt and water thoroughly and you would need a hydrometer or refractometer to measure the salinity.

So,..there is a little more work involved in keeping the BW puffers than the FW ones.

If you feel this a bit too much, best to stay simple with the FW puffs.

With the DP's you would only need to worry about good lights for planting the tank. WC's are much easier.

Hm! Thank you for being honest with me.

Perhaps I could start with some DPs, and then inevitably get addicted and buy another tank in the future for different puffers.

Hello, everyone!

It's me again! I've been giving this a LOT of thought and I think I've finally reached a decision...

Can you take the suspense any longer? Nope, didn't think so! I've decided to try a F8 in my 29 gallon because my brother has offered to give me the 15 gallon in his attic. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Because I'm thinking that a harem of DPs would be nice for a 15 gallon... Haha. We'll see about how soon I can coax my husband into letting me set that one up, but at least that makes my decision a lot easier!

Blaine, you said about the bumblebee gobies to "keep him company"? I thought that most puffs were more solitary creatures. Do they need tank mates? It's not that I'm opposed to tank mates, it's just that the bumblebee gobies don't particularly appeal to me. Are there other tank mate options if the puffer will really need companionship?

Pufferpunk, when you said that you kept two F8s in a 29 gallon... was that long-term? I can very easily settle for a single F8, but if two is a better option, that's fine by me.

Thanks again!

No, they don't need tank mates. According to RTR's decade-long study on F8s, they seem to live longer as singletons.
library/puffer-care/alone-but-not-lonel ... fers-solo/

Looks like I will be getting just one, then! He can have some "tank mates" when I throw in shrimp and snails. Until he eats them!

Thanks for the link to the article. I need to spend more time poking around in the library before I go further with this! Of course, it's much more fun to ask questions and talk to you guys, though!