The Puffer Forum

I recently got 3 canister filters very cheap off some guy. They are a Fluval 205 and 305. Also I got an Eheim Professional 2224. The tank I want to put one of them on is a 30 gallon for SAPs. Would the 205 be enough filtration? I tend to over do it with filtration usually but am unsure about this one. I know with a H.O.B you want 10x the tank volume for your GPH. I wanted to setup the 305 for the 30 gallon but when I plugged it in (without water) it was pretty noisy. A lot more noisy then the 205 when plugged in without water. The tank is in my room so noise is a HUGE factor. If it is not too big any ideas on what would be making the 305 noisy? I have yet to run it with water but am pretty sure it's going to be a little loud.

The noise level of any canister plugged in without water is absolutely meaningless and may damage the impeller and/or its housing, which may destroy the canister. never under any circumstances operate a filter dry..

There is no such thing as too much filtration It is not possible. Biofiltration is bio-load limited - the bacterial colonies multiply to meet the demand and stay at that level, not statically but dynamically.. Mechanical filtration is limited by particle-size capture, with particle size capture actually improving (smaller size particles are captured as the filter medium clogs) in use until it clogs. Thus it it upkeep limited, not filter-volume limited.

Apparent excess filtration could give too much current for a given setup, but with canisters the current is easily controlled by the manner in which the water return to the tank is handled. So this is a straw man, easily managed with a bit of forethought.

HTH

I realize that nevermind I guess I was not clear on what I was asking. All I want to know is if the 205 will be enough. If not I will fix the 305 so it's quiet and run that that's all. So i'm not asking if the 305 is TOO MUCH. Just asking if the 205 is TOO LITTLE. And you can't say there's no such thing as not enough filtration

I don't think he was being rude, RTR was just getting to the point. Keep in mind that text doesn't always convey the authors tone and some things are either lost or added in translating it.

On the topic of canister filters; Is it better to run pre-filter ceramic rings or just and axtra sponge in the first chamber? I'm asking becuase of the 403 I just picked up. It only has 3 chambers but right now the first has pre-filter rings. Should I leave them and run a sponge in the middle and biomax in the last? Or should I remove the pre-filter rings and run two sponges and biomax in the last chamber?

Or will the pre-filter rings in the first chamber cut down on the sponge clogging allowing the filter to run longer in between cleanings?

I was wondering the same exact thing. Because that's how my 305 is setup. I think I'm going to say the hell with the 205 and run the 305 why not right? Like RTR said you can't ever have too much filtration. I just need to get some new hoses because I don't trust the ones on there now. The guy didn't seem like he cared too much about his tanks. What's the best way to sterilize these types of things?

JRC3: Back when I used single-unit filtration, I liked the ceramic rings as a first crude/coarse mech filter, and also as an equalizer of flow within the filter's chamber.

If you open and rinse often, the rings will be fine. If you push the timing out to longer intervals, you may do better with two mech sponges before the biomaterial. It will save some on upkeep, but the trade-off is higher nitrates or more often or larger water partials. Everybody has to pick their own schedule as to how much they can or will reliably do.

borgey: I do not like or use any external Fluvals, but have tested them in the past. I use only Eheim externals. But I could set and use any of them for a 30 as an all-in one unit, but the smaller one would not provide enough flow for SAPs for me, even with careful tuning and customizing the return. I have not used all-in-one filtration alone in the last 20-30 years and never would again, especially for any messy fish. Whether or not any unit will work for you will depend more on your feeding and upkeep that on the particular unit you select, as it does for most folks. If you tend to let the equipment carry more load that it would under ideal conditions, you should select larger units. They can carry more load without damaging output too much. if you feed carefully and partial and vacuum well and routinely, you need less filter bulk and turnover. No canister needs the turnover of any HOB. Canisters are far more efficient and effective than HOBs, but you trade-off for that efficiency with lesser ease of use - any HOB is easier than any canister to maintain. Pure personal choice and style issue, not an absolute on any scale. It really does not require much biological colony space to maintain a well-run tank. An over-fed and under-cleaned one needs more. Even good canisters can lose flow (although I have never been able to really clog an Eheim) but it such is never beneficial if the bio-area is preceded by months-old high mass of digesting organics - oxygen deficiencies are highly possible to probable. HOBs just by-pass or overflow, but suffer the same oxygen deficits. Unless they use biowheels downstream. In the end, it all relies on upkeep or must compensate for its lack.

HTH

RTR doesn't sugar-coat anything but you can always take what he says as fact.

RTR wrote:JRC3: Back when I used single-unit filtration, I liked the ceramic rings as a first crude/coarse mech filter, and also as an equalizer of flow within the filter's chamber.

If you open and rinse often, the rings will be fine. If you push the timing out to longer intervals, you may do better with two mech sponges before the biomaterial. It will save some on upkeep, but the trade-off is higher nitrates or more often or larger water partials. Everybody has to pick their own schedule as to how much they can or will reliably do.

borgey: I do not like or use any external Fluvals, but have tested them in the past. I use only Eheim externals. But I could set and use any of them for a 30 as an all-in one unit, but the smaller one would not provide enough flow for SAPs for me, even with careful tuning and customizing the return. I have not used all-in-one filtration alone in the last 20-30 years and never would again, especially for any messy fish. Whether or not any unit will work for you will depend more on your feeding and upkeep that on the particular unit you select, as it does for most folks. If you tend to let the equipment carry more load that it would under ideal conditions, you should select larger units. They can carry more load without damaging output too much. if you feed carefully and partial and vacuum well and routinely, you need less filter bulk and turnover. No canister needs the turnover of any HOB. Canisters are far more efficient and effective than HOBs, but you trade-off for that efficiency with lesser ease of use - any HOB is easier than any canister to maintain. Pure personal choice and style issue, not an absolute on any scale. It really does not require much biological colony space to maintain a well-run tank. An over-fed and under-cleaned one needs more. Even good canisters can lose flow (although I have never been able to really clog an Eheim) but it such is never beneficial if the bio-area is preceded by months-old high mass of digesting organics - oxygen deficiencies are highly possible to probable. HOBs just by-pass or overflow, but suffer the same oxygen deficits. Unless they use biowheels downstream. In the end, it all relies on upkeep or must compensate for its lack.

HTH

Alright I understand that makes a lot of sense. I do vacuum cleaning once or twice a week and 50% WCs on sunday. I do also have an Eheim Professional and have been very curious about it. I've heard a lot of good things about them, but have never personally used one. Maybe I will just set that up instead of the 305. Either way I'm going to take down the 205 within the next few weeks and start with the 305 or the Eheim.

Pufferpunk wrote:RTR doesn't sugar-coat anything but you can always take what he says as fact.

Yeah I know he is a very knowledgeable. Which is why I based my choice off of his advice.

JRC3 wrote:I don't think he was being rude, RTR was just getting to the point. Keep in mind that text doesn't always convey the authors tone and some things are either lost or added in translating it.

BTW, I in no way was accusing RTR of being rude. I was just responding to the prior post that was later edited. I think Borgey initially took something as rude but later realized that it was not.

Frankly, I prefer the directness and the getting right to the point of most around here.

I have no issues with folks pointing out when someone - especially me - has not really fully answered the question asked, and I had not. I dis not originally fully respond to the question of "enough". It is never bad for folks to want more info - that is the way we learn things. Many, many inexperienced hobbyists tend to think that we have hard and fast rules on tank setups - especially for puffers, as we do set out a lot of detail. But what is not often fully grasped until folk have a lot of tank-years of experience is that tank equipment and physical set-up are all upkeep dependent. This implies that folks have to set their tanks by what they know they will do and what they are not willing to do. All of us have different personalities - for want of a better term - and hate to do, or don't, mind at all certain things. The relatively inexperienced don't know themselves well enough to judge what their likes and dislikes are yet.

I do not mind at all doing a lot preliminary planning and setting equipment-heavy tanks, because I know that I can operate those for at least a decade with little further though. Water changes and vacuuming are mindless to me, ditto rinsing easy-access sponges. That colors and changes the way I set and operate tanks. It takes experience to learn what you do not mind and will do indefinitely into the future. If you can avoid loading yourself with things you hate to do, you will enjoy tank-keeping a lot more, an get more out of it. For me, my set-ups are really really easy to maintain. To non-hobbyists ( and some very knowledgeable hobbyists) my set-ups are nightmare, totally beyond their understanding. They find It hard to believe that I spend less (and it is even easier) than their all-in-one tanks or tank plus single sump setups. What appears to be massive complexity is in practice, very very simple to maintain. I have no issues with extra equipment and complexity that costs me some extra money and days or weeks in setup, if it saves me hours of delicate work every week for an almost indefinite period. But that only comes from knowing yourself and what you will and will not reliably do.

The hardest thing we learn is to see ourselves realistically. Once you know yourself, selecting tank components is a snap. It really is not the component, it is the self-knowledge that matters. Novices have to learn themselves, then they can learn appropriate - for them - tank care. We cannot really teach that - we each have to learn themselves by and for themselves. For long-tern fish care, it is not the equipment, it is what we individually will or will not do with the equipment.

This is not really a digression, but consider it RTR's philosophy of tank keeping.

HTH

Thanks for all the info RTR! I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Also thank you to everyone else that has helped me from the beginning!!!

Great post, RTR!

Water changes and vacuuming are mindless to me, ditto rinsing easy-access sponges.

Yeppers--folks always ask me how I can keep all my tanks so clean. I just never consider WC as work--been doing them for >30 years. A labor of love...

Water changes really are not even hard that's why I never got why some people make such a big deal about them. I think that if you've got the fish then you should not mind doing them on a regular basis. I guess when you have a tank 100+ gallons then yeah it might become a pain but like you said labor of love....

Yup, but PP is right. You would not believe the work and special designs folk invest just to avoid water changes - it boggles the mind. I don't want to have to do the fish-keeping equivalent of brain surgery on my tanks every week, but partials are so simple. I Python and use pumps a lot in mine, and many are semi-automated such that I do not have to watch constantly, but demanding or hard work? No way!

I just find it hard to believe that anyone is lazier than I am, but apparently they are. I admit that in the dark ages pre-Python, I limited myself to a dozen tanks.