The Puffer Forum

I have my two GSP's. Probably 1.5-2inchs each right now
S.G: 1.020
Temp:78-80

Problem: First off Stinky(the bigger of the two) is perfectly healthy. Very white stomach and eating like there is no tomorrow. One of the happiest, and funniest, puffers I've seen. But for some reason Pablo(a little smaller than Stinky) does nothing but hide in his cave all day. When he comes out to eat his stomach is always very dark in color. He doesn't eat nearly as much as he used to. His coloration rarely becomes vibrant on the top of his head. As at some points he runs into things as in if he's attempting to scratch his sides/belly on the rock or cave. I'm seriously at a dilemma where I don't know what to do . I did a 50% water change and no improvement. Stinky is perfectly fine and doesn't seem to be having any problems at all.

If anyone has any solutions or suggestions please help.

I'm moving this to the Hosp forum, so you can answer all the Qs above, in red.

My bad.

Water Parameters
78-80 temp
7.2-7.4pH
Ammonia & Nitrate; N/A ( don't have a kit yet. money problems :/)
Salinity: 1.020-1.021

Tank size:
20gallon tank

Inhabitants:
Only 2 GSP's

Feeding etc:
Feed 1-2 times a day Dried shrimp until their bellies just barely poke out.
I changed the water once a week 30% water
Instaocean salt & chlorine remover

Changes I've made in the past week:
I took out 2 of the plants

How long has it been set up:
It's been set up since August.
I cycled it by using a cycle kit I got from the fish store.

I also have an ammonia removing solution i put in once every two weeks.

You need a liquid test kit ASAP..

Please do not add ammonia removal to your tank. You should not need that if your tank is cycled and it does not work like you think it does...it is just another product made to get you to spend $$$$

Without knowing your nitrates, ammonia and nitrites we cannot tell if your tank is cycled or what is causing the problem.

However, the tank is too small and not enough territory for two GSPs...so *if* your tank is cycled, and we do not know if it is because you do not know your nitrates, nitrites and ammonia, you may be having a problem in which the two GSPs are fighting over territory and the winner being the bigger more dominant Stinky. If so this aggression will only worsen (especially in that small of a tank).

But, we cannot know for sure..without your water parameters.

What type of marine salt do you use..how do you measure the salinity?

You can bring your water into most LFS for free testing but you really need your own test kits. Without knowing your parameters, it would be difficult to tell what is wrong with your puffer. Start by doing much larger water changes (50-75%). Why do you keep the SG so high for juvies? Kind of a waste of $alt.

I use Instant Ocean salt and have a hydrometer

Young GSP's don't need to be kept in such a high SG, it really is a lot of salt use for a juvenile GSP. You can safely keep them in the 1.005 range when they are that small and slowly raise it as they get older.

What we need for parameters are listed in the questions above. Please get your water tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Like PP says, the local fish store does test water and most do it for free or at a minimal charge. The biggest thing that worries me right now, what really stands out, is the size of the tank. At a minimum a single GSP requires 30 gallons and a minimum 55 gallon for two. Sounds crazy for a single tiny fish but these guys are very messy fish and carry a high waste production. I'm going to start like you know nothing about aquariums because I don't know what level you are at. Fish produce waste, metabolic, respiratory, and end of digestion waste. This is all organic waste that, to make a long story short, break down in to nitrogenous wastes. The way nature handles these wastes is through dilution and bacteria that helps break it down. In the aquarium humans are responsible for providing a way to get rid of these wastes, just like nature, through dilution and through bacteria.

When a fish produces waste it begins to break down, almost immediately, in to ammonia. Ammonia is very caustic and can cause things like burns, respiratory problems and over all is very toxic if it builds up. We remove this from the aquarium via filtration, not the mechanical filtration most people think of, but through biologic filtration. This, along with mechanical filtration, occurs in the filter system, on decor in the tank, and the substrate. The filter and tank for bacteria that converts the ammonia to a less toxic, but still harmful, substance called nitrite. Again, nitrite is converted to something else the way ammonia is, through biologic filtration. A different bacteria grow in the filter and tank surfaces that changes harmful nitrite to a less harmful end product: nitrate. Nitrate is nowhere near as toxic as ammonia and less toxic than nitrite but is is still harmful none the less if it builds up in the tank.

This is where dilution comes in. We act as mother natures dilution system at this point by doing water changes and providing a large enough space for the nitrate to dilute itself for a short time. By keeping a puffer in a tank that is too small we don't allow this dilution to occur (along with other substances that need to be diluted out). When we mention the minimum tank size we are accounting for not only swim room but for this filtration and dilution to take place also.

I'm going to hazard a guess that when you do get your water tested you are going to see a high nitrate reading. Nitrate and nitrite can cause confusion and drunken behavior in fish if the readings get high or are sustained for long periods. Again, with the tank being too small for one GSP let alone two, the toxins are probably building in there to an unsafe level even though you are doing water changes, they just can't keep up with the toxins.

Well update: They're both perfectly white now and happy as can be. I'm guessing I just went too long without a water change? And I'm def. getting a water kit tomorrow. Can anyone tell me what are the levels I'm looking for as far as nitrates and such

Ammonia/nitrate at 0 always, nitrite <20, better <10.

Pufferpunk wrote:Ammonia/nitrate at 0 always, nitrite <20, better <10.

Ammonia/nitrite 0, nitrate <20, better <10

Oops, now who's confused???

Went and got a test kit... I'm a little afraid of what I found
pH:7.8
Ammonia:7.0
Nitrite:>1.0
Nitrate:>5.0

I'm using a Saltwater Master Test Kit API

What do I do?

Read my sig & do lots of them! Get rid of that scat.

You have to do daily 50% water changes until your tank is cycled. A lot of people frown upon chemicals being used to cycle a tank and this is the reason why. A lot of the times they don't do a damn thing. But please do 50% WCs daily until it's cycled. I know it sounds like a lot but Puffers more then any fish are sensitive to ammonia/nitrite. It will reward you in the long run.

I've been doing a water change everyday and I've already noticed a huge difference in their activity level, color, and how much their eating. Thanks guys for all the help