The Puffer Forum

Lilacamy has inspired me a bit, and i think it is time for me to start acquiring SW equipment and knowledge.

The Equipment needed is the most confusing to me, so I am reading up on it..

Have a quick question can I use my tap water for a SW tank. I live in the country and use a well.

Or do I need to purchase something like R/O or something like that?

For me that would depend on the type of SW tank to be set up. For reef or serious invert tanks, I would use at least RO, or RODI (the combination may give highert purity at lower cost than forcing maximum purity RO-only). There the water quality demands are the greatest IME. For FO or even FOWLR, I would likely use my tap water as is, and have done. My tap is moderateratelyy hard and moderately alkaline and has nitrate <1ppm. If your tap is very hard and or maybe very alkaline, or if it has nitrate at or above 10 ppm, I would likely cut any or all those by RO. High alkalinity alone is unlikely to be harmful to FO or FOWLR, but could give less-than-desirable relations between some ions in more demanding tanks,

I am a nut on sumps/refugia. They can be of great assistance in any SW tank. From my very early SW days, all of my SW tanks had some sump and or regugium-based aids. The more fragile ones tended to have two or three.

RO = Reverse osmosis. This device reduces the TDS (total dissolved solids) of the input water by use of tangential flow membranes and pressures. The purity of the output is variable under operator control.

RODI = Reverse osmosis (RO) water reprocessed by cation and anion (positive and negative ions in the water) removal by de-ionization (DI) by selective absorption media. The combination of treatments commonly gives higher purity at lower cost than either process alone.

A skimmer/foam fractionator is almost always used.

Biofilters in the FW sense are used principally only for FO tanks. All the others are likely to have live rock to play that role, so conventional biofilters are not required.

DSB or plenums may be used for any type of SW tank.

Macroalgae refugia similarly may benefit just about any SW tank, but are most beneficial or essential to the point where I would not operate without one for any invert-heavy system, They are great 'pod generators as well as nitrate-eaters.

FOWLR may have the LR (live rock) in-tank or in the sump.

Foam fractionators (aka "skimmers) may be in a/the sump or on the main tank, but they are not attractive (understatement) and for me should be sump-based.

Abbreviations:

FO = Fish Only

FOWLR = Fish Only, With Live Rock

Reef = Inverts are the focus, fish are best only in a support role if any and may interfere w/certain inverts so are best avoided IMHO. Certain other tanks, such as invert-only tanks including anemone tanks would come under the same demads for high purity water.

DSB = Deep sand beds, nitrate and other undesirable consumers.

Plenum = similar function to DSB, but safer. They avoid some of the pitfalls of DSB by avoiding/blocking deep anoxia.

"Skimmer" = a device for generating and then condensing foams for extraction of proteins, some lipids, etc. - molecules with a propensity to form films on water-air interfaces such as bubbles.
Do not confuse these with surface skimmers which control a constant water level in the display tank, commonly by an over-the-side plastic constant-level siphon device. Those serve the same function as standpipes in reef-ready tanks. Durso standpipes are the quietest IME. Standpipes may be objectionably noisy (think of a toilet in constant flush mode). Both of these devices deliver water to a sump below or behind/beside the display tank. Both types of device do block the formation of any surface film on the display tank water surface.

HTH.

The tank will be for my GSPs, I haven't thought about adding tankmates with them..

So I guess just some live rock and the GSPs

Although I thought about practicing SW with a spare 10 gallon I have. Maybe find some sturdy, very small, non-schooling fish for the tank..

Thanks for the information. With the test kits I have my tap water seems ok. Ph around the 7's except for a short period in spring. No ammonia and such, but I will get it tested for everything before I start

There sure is a lot of equipment needed!! Yikes!

Also thanks for the terminology!

For a FO or FOWLR, it is not all needed. You know I am an over-filtration addict, and a tank size nut as well.

It is really just that the filtration is done by different techniques than those used in FW, and some of those techniques used for marine conditions do not work in FW. Protein skimming is a wonderful technique, but not practical in FW. We cannot get the small bubble size in FW as we do in SW, If we could, it would be fantastic.

A lot of my FW refugia are done as approximations of the processes used in demanding SW tanks. the physical and biological nature of SW gives options not easily available to FW. Going into SW so young (and still a bachelor) taught me some bad lessons from which I never recovered. I have spent much of my hobby experiment trials attempting to emulate SW systems in FW.

I have moderately hard well water and so far my softy reef is kicking off really well. My tap contains unreadable nitrates and minimul phates(nothing that cant be taken care of with vitc doseing.) I currently have green star polyps and red shrooms along with many inverts. All of my inverts molt regularly and my corals are showing growth. Tomorrow Im going to be adding some more softies and possibly an easy to keep lps. Since your going to have a FOWLR I would say just use tap and dose with vitc to get rid of any extra phates that you may have.

One other thing to think about since your doing FOWLR is if you want the rocks to grow nice coraline algea your going to need moderate lighting which in turn will grow some nuesance algea. With out a clean up crew (which you wont be able to have because of the puffers) your stuck to doing all of the maintenance yourself. IMO not from experiance I would keep the puffers in a FO system and have some nice fake decore much like PP did.

For good deals on used equipment near you look at these sites.

http://www.carolinareefers.com
http://www.carolinafishtalk.com

You can do what is essentially a FO main tank, with the LR in the sump with needed light and support crew safe from the puffs. That provides the improved water conditions and control without the extra puffer food of the clean-up crew. Doesn't PP have LR in her sump? That is the way I would do it.

FOWLR does not require single-tank operation, dividing the fish and the LR is still all in the same water. That is the point of refugia/sumps - to sort the support work out to where it is protected and can have the conditions it needs for best operation. It is in fact effectively an extension of the concept of external filters such as external canisters and HOBs. In fact, many to most of the earliest refugia were done in the old larger HOB boxes before specialty devices were made for them, or sumps (basically additional but linked tanks) were used. My first SW "sump" was on the same level with the display, but beside it. It was an algae filter for my first invert tank in the late 1960s and early '70s. These are not "new" or exotic techniques.

LOL, I've got LR everywhere! Just got 70lbs of it to set up my 46g for the T ocellatus & I've got nowhere else to put it.

But that is great water management - don't apologize, boast! Getting all those micro- and macroscopic workers going full steam for you is my kind of work!

That LR was sitting in a dark, empty tank for months... I'm hoping they will get some seeding with critters in the weeks they are in my fuge.

Bcummings8521 wrote:For good deals on used equipment near you look at these sites.

http://www.carolinareefers.com
http://www.carolinafishtalk.com

Thanks, these are great sites, I am going to join..Do you have the same ID there?

thanks everyone for the advice.. Maybe I could do FO...but I am a tacky tank decorator!

LOL! none of my puffers have ever expressed strong aesthetic statements - although both the Fahakas and the T. mbu removed Crinum plants which were in their way.

The hunter-predator puffers are happy with visual complexity, just so long as they can get all the way around much to most of the posts, lumps, and knobs to scan for potential food items. Hunting interests take precedence over aesthetic appeal to human eyes.

purplecandle wrote:

Bcummings8521 wrote:For good deals on used equipment near you look at these sites.

http://www.carolinareefers.com
http://www.carolinafishtalk.com

Thanks, these are great sites, I am going to join..Do you have the same ID there?

thanks everyone for the advice.. Maybe I could do FO...but I am a tacky tank decorator!

Yes I have the same name on both sites. For local supplies and stock these sites are essential to me. So far I have received my skimmer lights and corals all from the peeps on those sites. Most are in NC so thats a bonus for you.

my favorite pet store is one of the sponsors on one of the sites...which is really cool. Dubey's pet world

I said you referred me, maybe you will get some kudo's for it