The Puffer Forum

I'm cycling my new 55 gallon now and preparing for some figure gights. How many can I have in a 55g? I have read a lot about them but read conflicting care info. One website reccomendeds for my tank size 3 figure 8's and 7 bumblee bees. Then today I read that the two species may not work well together. So confused

Also I'm planning a snail breeding tank for their food but is this a good staple food? Any help is much apprecieated!

I would hazard a guess and say you could probably have 3-4 Figure-8 puffers, but that figure might change depending on how many Bumblebee gobies you are wanting to have.
Several people on this forum keep those two together without problems. The smaller and younger your puffers are, the more accepting they will probably be of tankmates.

Snails are always good to keep a puffer's teeth trimmed down, but I don't like to consider it as a "base food". I prefer to give other food items (raw shrimp, mussels, cockles, etc.) and give snails as a sort of "treat" weekly.

Ok so the food thing, snails as weekly treats but what about the other foods. Some times my LPS has ghost shrimp but they are a bit far could I put a bunch in with the snails as a holding tank? And how do you gut load a shrimp? With what? Can the main source of a puffers food be frozens? I know absolutly nothing about sea food. I do know you can get frozen bloodworms and such at the LPS but what do I even do with a mussel??? and just who much would 3-4 f8's eat ina day?

Thanks for putting up with all my questions!

I don't mind answering your questions, that's what we're here for.

Ghost shrimp, as I understand it, do not have much nutritional value. You want to feed your shrimp good foods, so that when your puffer eats them, they are getting a more nutritional meal. That's all gut-loading means. Feeding a good meal to whatever you're feeding your puffer, so it's more nutritious.
I admit that most of the foods that I feed my puffers are originally frozen. And because that's the case, you really should soak the food in vitamins to replace those that are lost due to the food not being alive and fresh. I buy mussels meant for human consumption and that's what I feed my puffers. They are already shelled, so all you have to do is cut them in half, the puffer will do the rest. I used to buy smaller ones that are meant for aquatic usage, but my puffers didn't like them very much, and seemed to enjoy the bigger ones better. I also buy my raw shrimp in big bags (of course I have alot of puffers to feed also). I buy frozen bloodworm and again, I soak them in liquid vitamins to make sure my puffers get those vitamins they might be losing out on by not eating the variety they would get in the wild.

I wouldn't think a few F8's would eat that much each day. I buy my bloodworm in a big long slab and thaw it out, rinse it and put it into a container to soak in vitamins. Then I dip a little out with a spoon when it comes time to feed the puffs. If I were you, I'd probably end up cutting up a few small pieces of raw shrimp, or mussel and that's what I would feed your F8's, plus a little bloodworm. Meal done. Of course you can find other things sometimes too. There's a grocery store that every once in a while has some sort of crab claws. I buy them, crack them open and either put some shell with some meat in it in the tank, or just throw a bit of meat in the tank. They seem to love it. You might have to experiment to find out what your puffers will eat or won't eat. Not all puffers eat the same thing.
You might also try giving an earthworm now and again, mine love them.

I hope this has been helpful to you.

Thanks so much! I admittedly do not know the first thing about sea foods as don't eat the stuff so when I've read feed mussels it's like ummmm....

I think I could do this eaisily with frozens though. I could make the vitiman soaked stuff and freeze it in ice cube trays. (this is what I have done for baby foods and land hermit crabs foods).

Do you have much luck with freeze dried (krill, ect)? I read somewhere that it could damage the stomach if not reconsituted first.

I'm trying to have all my research done ahead of time. As a teenager I picked up some little puffer in a shop but sadly he didn't make it I just didn't know enough about them I guess.

I don't particularly care for freeze-dried foods and don't use them, although I think some others on here might.

And it's good that you're researching prior to purchase, too many people get the puff first and then try to find out about them when it's usually too late.

I've lost my fair share of puffers from ignorance on my part too, so don't feel badly.

FWIW, someday folk here will understand that our longevity data on F-8s was done by me using a diet of over 95% owner-bred and reared snails. They are not, absolutely not, "treats". They are the best staple diet we can provide for these fish. This gets so blasted frustrating! How often do I have to repeat this?

Ditto at a slightly lower percentage for GSPs, because they outgrow the volume of snails I could provide, but up to over 3" standard size, snails are their diet.

Ditto for SAPs. if you want minimum dental problems and long healthy lives, give them 95% snail diets. Our smaller puffers (but not the smallest, the DPs) are mollusk and bivalve and some crustacean eaters. Note that the first of that list is mollusk, which includes snails.

If you substitute other foods than well-nourished snails for these fish, my projections on lifespan do not apply. personally, I would never again keep F-8s or SAPs if I could not or would not rear sufficient healthy well-nourished (you are what your prey eats) snails (ramshorn and common pond) for their diet.

Off of soapbox, return to your regular programming.

RTR wrote:FWIW, someday folk here will understand that our longevity data on F-8s was done by me using a diet of over 95% owner-bred and reared snails. They are not, absolutely not, "treats". They are the best staple diet we can provide for these fish. This gets so blasted frustrating! How often do I have to repeat this?

Ditto at a slightly lower percentage for GSPs, because they outgrow the volume of snails I could provide, but up to over 3" standard size, snails are their diet.

Ditto for SAPs. if you want minimum dental problems and long healthy lives, give them 95% snail diets. Our smaller puffers (but not the smallest, the DPs) are mollusk and bivalve and some crustacean eaters. Note that the first of that list is mollusk, which includes snails.

If you substitute other foods than well-nourished snails for these fish, my projections on lifespan do not apply. personally, I would never again keep F-8s or SAPs if I could not or would not rear sufficient healthy well-nourished (you are what your prey eats) snails (ramshorn and common pond) for their diet.

Off of soapbox, return to your regular programming.

I hear you RTR - my 2 GSPs get snails at every feed. Sometimes fresh from my snail breeding tank & sometimes ones that I have collected from the beach, frozen, then thawed. Sometimes the whole meal is snails & sometimes it is other stuff & one snail (depends how my breeding stock are producing!!).

I can't get my F8 to eat anything but snails and a mill worm at feeding time. I know mill worms aren't very nutritious but it's been a temporary food until my snail jail gets established. Since this fish won't eat anything but snails and at .30 a piece I've had a need to supplement with the mill worms. I've been buying 15 snails at a time and giving them some time to breed before plucking them out to be F8 food. I've tried frozen blood worms and brine shrimp which he used to eat when I first got him, and I've also tried frozen krill, fresh shrimp, mussels, earthworms, and wax worms. My snail tank is starting to produce some snails that are barely big enough for him to find and I should be in great shape in about two weeks. I will offer different foods from time to time but I have a feeling that his diet is going to consist of my pond and ramshorn snails only. I feed the snails good tropical flakes, algae wafers, shrimp pellets, and vegetables so hopefully they will be nutritious for my fish.

And as I stated in another thread, my fish has been pacing less because he has been looking for the snails. My thoughts are that it has to be more enjoyable for the fish to hunt as it would do in in the wild, as apposed to just getting a hand out and having nothing else to do with it's time but pace.

RTR, I'm plenty happy to hear that the snails are a great for these fish...And it's also great on my wallet.

*edit*

I forgot to add that I put a "wanted" listing on Craiglist and I'm meeting a lady tomorrow to get snails from her. So keep that in mind as a way to get some.

Thankfully, keeping and rearing healthy snails is really easy. For me there is no question that they are cheaper and easier* than frozen and FD foods, and as on-the hoof (so to speak) live food are very much matural hunting behavior for the fish - also a good thing. For SAPs, the smallest snails I sneak in before the lights go "on" for the light cycle, dumping the snails intoi the planted strip across the back of the tank. Then the SAPs get to seek & find and eat much as they would in the wild. That does no go for the BW puffers as well - the snails will not last long in BW, so are fed at meal time only.

*I have lots of planted tanks and veggie filters connected to unplanted tanks - all can be used as snail factories.

Well I've started my snail tank- 6 mystery snails. Now what is everyone's opinion on the best stuff to feed them. I've read that algae wafers and good fish flakes are good. What about regular veggies? any opinions?

My tank is still cyclying and I tossed a nice sized hornwort in to see how it does. I'll be testing the water tomorrow to see how it's progressing.

And I'm thinking I could get 4-5 f8's as well as 6-7 bumbleebee gobies? Provided I break up the line of sight and have pleanty of plants and caves for the gobies?

Why Mystery snails? Their shells can break teeth...and ramshorns breed much faster...

I do not think you will be able to keep the teeth trimming up with mystery snails..

Plus mystery snails are big...meaning a slow death for them

4-5 F8s plus & 7 bumblebees sounds overstocked to me, but that is just my opinion

Those were the only snails I could get at the LPS. I figure they'll be fed before they reach full size. I read that they were ok on teeth and that trapdoors can break teeth. I figure if they are being fed when they are small they won't have as hard/thick a shell and death should come quickly.

Yeah I'm still not sure about those numbers but that's why I'm asking. One article says keep them alone another says the opisite.