The Puffer Forum

Your tank is approximately 5gal which means it is the appropriate size for a single DP, not 5. It is extremely overstocked and there is definitely not room for a pleco. Also, DPs are notorious fin nippers so even in a sufficiently sized tank it probably wouldn't be a good idea to add a pleco.

ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Freshwater/C_Travancoricus/

Are you able to buy a larger setup to house the puffers properly? If not it would probably be best to rehome 4 of them and just keep a single DP in that tank. DPs also require a heavily planted or decorated tank as they're quite territorial.

How long has this tank been up and running? How did you cycle it?

Many puffers come home with internal parasites. One of the main signs of this is a thin fish with a pinched look and/or a fish who becomes thin quickly after eating. White feces can also sometimes be seen.

Here are some things you should read. They'll answer some of your questions and are great references
library/hospital/internal-parasites-pre ... treatment/
library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/
library/feeding/problems-feeding-your-puffer/

Do you mean 20 liters or a 20 "long" tank? If its a 20 long, you're okay. 20 literes, yes, way too small of a tank.

I have kept bristlenose (similar to rubbernose) plecos with my dwarf puffers. But I made sure they had several pieces of driftwood that they could "cave" under and inside. A 20 gallon tank is a little small for an adult bristlenose or rubbernose, but if you can find a "dwarf" bristlenose, they are adorable and only grow to 3-4 inches, and do a good job of eating algae.

If the tank has been set up for a while and is nice and stable, you could consider adding a few Otos instead of the pleco, for algae control.

As far as the food, they are picky eaters. Live blackworms are their favorite. The only commercial food I've found they'll eat is New Life Spectrum small fish formula.

Flutter please take a breath.. its a 20 Long as opposed to a 20H (20 high). I apologize for the confusion. Really didn't need to get yelled at there, but thanks, I understand the concern.

The tank was fishless cycled for months. Not weeks, months. Yes with food any everything as the puffers needed a stable tank, not a newly cycled one. I've been keeping fish for several years and I know how to set up the tank and all of that. I also did research before I even decided on puffers. The tank will get more heavily planted soon, but I lost many plants due to the algae. There are 2 major caves and a nice piece of mopani. The tank was made as a species tank specifically for the puffers. I am curious about adding a pleco thus the question. I honestly totally forgot about otto's. Doh. I had even considered those before and then turned around and forgotten them. Man my head. I will look at those. I am not getting the pleco/otto really for algae control, that's just a side benefit. As I said I will continue to learn about that and ultimately that problem will be not a problem. Algae itself isn't bad at all so I am not even opposed to it. I am opposed to it taking over to the point that it chokes out some of the other plants.

That the one puffer may have parasites concerns me. What are safe meds for puffers that I can use for that? I have some antiparasite food but I am thinking that won't work as I can't get the little buggars to go for anything other than the worms and the snails. They will consider flakes and plecocaine but not for long. Does garlic help with puffers the way it helps other fish? (To get them to eat the food. It helps sometimes with that).

A diary is kept here. http://www.fishforums.com/forum/user-jo ... nture.html I want to make it clear I am not aiming at endorsing other forums. That is just where the journal is and you can see the tank quite easily there. If the link is not okay then feel free to yank it

Thanks so much for your help guys!

I am hoping I am not coming across grumpy. It's late and my internal editor is asleep.

Hello
Garlic might be just the thing, it is certainly worth a go, helps get vitamins in and makes food tastier. I have the same problem with my dwarfs, though they did like a good bit of softened pea. How about frozen brine or mysis shrimp?

As to the plec, Myaj has you covered. Try to give as much cover as possible, though to be honest it may just be down to the puffer personalities as to whether they will tolerate or pester.

With meds, have a look in the hospital forum and perhaps provide some pics of the skinny dwarf to check, are you sure it isnt being bullied by the others? I have two new figure 8 puffers and one is smaller and quite often gets pushed by the other and doesnt always feel it can come up for food, so I have a giant net to encompass and feed, he is quite settled like this now and ensures he gets a good feed to get him growing and recovering from the conditions at the LFS.

Sorry to be of nt much help, but hope that does a little!

P.s. had a look at the linky and latest pic on the last page, an absolutely gorgeous tank set up with puffs! Looks very interesting for them, how do you find aggression in the group?

EDIT oh and if go for a plec make sure enough filtration to cope with the puffer poop machine and plec poop machines and what about bulldog plecs?

To be honest, I wouldn't keep anything with DPs. DPs are fin nippers, and would make the life miserable for any other fish. Some people have succeeded keeping otos with DPs though. But otos are to be kept in groups, so there's no way you should buy only one.

Well I know that most people don't agree, but I am currently keeping irrubesco puffers and dwarf puffers together and I've got a Cory cat and a Bristlenose plec in there, and really things are very calm. I do watch for aggression and if anyone is aggressive, I'd say it's the irrubesco towards each other. No fins have been torn or bitten and everyone seems fine. But perhaps my situation is the exception and not the rule.

Obsidian wrote:Flutter please take a breath.. its a 20 Long as opposed to a 20H (20 high).

We have a lot of members from countries that use the metric system. He was thinking that 20l was 20 liters, in which case panic was understandable. Lol.

Dwarf puffers can be tricky to get IP meds into.. they are already picky eaters and most medicated food tastes icky.. or so the puffers like to tell us. The stuff we were all using that apparently tastes good and worked great, has been discontinued

I generally use the Levamasole/metronidazole combo when deworming (well, I still have some Geltek on hand) and I think a lot of people on there will dissolve some of those Fizz Tabs and soak the food in that with good results. With dwarf puffers, you'll probably be better off fasting them for a few days then soaking some frozen bloodworms in the meds and some garlic (yes, garlic can help).

Another option you might want to consider instead of a pleco or otos is red cherry shrimp. They are tiny, breed like rabbits, cool to watch and the dwarf puffers will have a blast hunting them down. If they have enough cover, they'll breed fast enough to keep a good population going, and they do eat algae.

I always had good luck keeping my dwarf puffers in a mixed community tank, but it was a literal jungle of live plants and had healthy colonies of snails and shrimp, so the puffers were always focused on hunting the good stuff, and not worrying about harrassing each other or other tank mates.

I'm sorry that came across as yelling, that wasn't the intention at all And yes, Jose is right, in my country 20L means 20 litres I am very happy to hear that that is not the case!

I kept kuhlis with my DPs. I really liked them and they all got along well.

NP Flutter, like I said I understood the concern I need to remember the litre thing when I post on other forums. On that other forum I am known enough that folks just know what I mean LOL.

I have tried to keep ottos before and I am afraid I killed a bunch off. Whoops. Since then I have been reluctant but I think a lot of it had to do with the tank just being too new. They need stable much like the puffers so I think those might be worth a try if I can find some healthy ones. That is hard due to the starving while shipping thing, which they are notoriously horrid at getting through. There is a shop in Phoenix that might have some and they are a good shop. I will have to consider that. That would mean a day trip.

I like the idea of the cherry shrimp as I do like that they would have something else to hunt down. How many would I need to start with to give them a prayer of taking hold before they are all mince meat? I think I could get some going in the snail tank.

So far I have what I would consider "fair" aggression. During meal times they get nippy and the biggest one definitely chases the others away. I spread the food out across the top of the tank so that really doesn't cause too many problems. Otherwise they mostly just hang out in various areas of the tank and have this uncanny ability to know when I am looking at the tank. I am always right next to it so there are not any physical ques such as me sitting down to tip them off. Inevitably I look over and they all come out and play at the front of the tank.

The thin one is about the same size as the other smallest one, but it has a sunken belly. I will have to see if I can see it actually eat. I only noticed the belly on Friday. both are considerably smaller than the biggest one. I honestly have no idea on sexes. They get along well enough that I am not worried about the ratio at this point. The puffers do nibble at the algae.

Food I have tried:
Frozen bloodworms (yummy!)
Frozen Krill- sniff sniff swim away. (I might try actually warming these up rather than just defrosting).
Frozen Beefheart- Won't even sniff
Frozen omnivore mix- won't even sniff
Frozen herbivore- sniff sniff swim away
Plecocaine- Munches on a little but mostly swims away
Omega One flakes: Will munch on these a little
Betta pellets: Liked these the first time I used them, now they ignore them.
And they eat the snails of course.
The frozen foods are defrosted first in water, then poured into the tank.

I will try the starving then feeding parasite meds in garlic to them. I hope I don't loose the little guy. He is pretty cute.

Obsidian wrote: I like the idea of the cherry shrimp as I do like that they would have something else to hunt down. How many would I need to start with to give them a prayer of taking hold before they are all mince meat? I think I could get some going in the snail tank.

I had the same Idea. I introduced 200 Cherry Shrimp + 100 pond snails into the tank and was hoping they would establish before I put in my puffers. The Puffers came a little earlier than I expected and my population was gone within a week or two (I can't remember exactly). We are also talking a different species here (SAPs), but the theory is the same. If the shrimp can't find the caves and breeding grounds they will not survive.

It is best that they are raised in a separate tank and netted out as snacks once in a while.

Get as many as you can for success I think I started with something like 12 and ended up with hundreds, but for a long time the tank only had some pygmy cories living in it and they don't catch and eat shrimp.

Don't keep them with your snails though, shrimp eat snail eggs.

The price on red cherries has come down quite a bit, you can probably get a hundred or so on Aquabid for pretty cheap.

If you get otos, you may eventually have to supplement with algae wafers. Many otos starve to death because there is not enough of an algae source in a tank (or the wrong kind of algae). You want spirolina as the first ingredient. If fish meal is the first ingredient, don't purchase those wafers. I've kept otos and albino bristlenose plecos with the dwarf puffers.

J-P wrote:

Obsidian wrote: I like the idea of the cherry shrimp as I do like that they would have something else to hunt down. How many would I need to start with to give them a prayer of taking hold before they are all mince meat? I think I could get some going in the snail tank.

I had the same Idea. I introduced 200 Cherry Shrimp + 100 pond snails into the tank and was hoping they would establish before I put in my puffers. The Puffers came a little earlier than I expected and my population was gone within a week or two (I can't remember exactly). We are also talking a different species here (SAPs), but the theory is the same. If the shrimp can't find the caves and breeding grounds they will not survive.

It is best that they are raised in a separate tank and netted out as snacks once in a while.

Do either the dwarf puffers or the SAP's eat trumpet snails?