The Puffer Forum

Hi everyone, new to the forum, thanks in advance for your help. I have had a GSP for 2+ months that has been a constant struggle. We thought he would die early on, as our newbie mistake was not cycling the tank before putting him in. He lived and looked a lot better for awhile, in regards to not having the sickly dark underbelly and skinny body. Here recently, however, he appears extremely thin and almost disfigured in the rear, with the black mark that goes from his mouth to his end. We know its the ammonia, as its about at 2.0 right now, and it has pretty much been about that high since the beginning, regardless of whatever we do. Ive also read that a thin rear of the fish might be caused by salinity, which always seems low at <.25. We had been trying to slowly add aquarium salt, but could not get salinity to rise. For the last couple days, we have been slowly adding water that is usually used for our saltwater tank. He was worse today than before, but he was definitely sick before we started adding any saltwater, however. When I walked in today he was balled up floating around the tank, and seemed very lethargic. I know they sleep, but he is definitely sick. Any advice on what to do to help him and how to combat the ammonia and salinity. In regards to the questions above:
1.8 pH, 2.0 ammonia, nitrites about 0, nitrates at about 2, salinity about .25
2. 10 g, but our green spotted puffer is the only fish. Is this just too small? We have a couple fake plants and a fake coral piece, he does not seem to be bored. He always seems to be "asking" for food.
3. Lately, went from one feeding a day of unfrozen brine shrimp to at the most once every other day in order to help with ammonia. The fish store people believe that the tank is still cycling, so they recommended avoiding water cleaning for as long as possible, so we were doing a 30-40 percent change once a week for a couple of weeks. Before that, twice a week. In the past two days, we have done two 30% changes as hes been so sick. Weve been using AquaSafe for the water and StressZyme for the ammonia. Too, weve put an ammonia filter pad in the filter.
4and5. Addressed in first paragraph.

2.0 ammonia, nitrites about 0, nitrates at about 2, salinity about .25

A) your tank still is not cycled as of yet ... you will need higher volume water changes daily or 2x daily

B) depending on the size of the GSP you will need a bigger tank eventually (the sooner the better).

Ammonia is the problem for the moment ... I had the same issue.

Are you on well or city water?

Start the changing the water soon .... adding declor if needed (city water). Time (at this point) is not your friend

We are on city water, but were just discussing whether to start buying distilled water to do water changes. Also, the LFS keeps saying do not do water changes because it is cycling and it will help with bacteria growth. So do massive water changes and ignore them? I trust what yall say more, as what they have told us has gotten us into trouble. Should we use Declor if we are using distilled or pet store fresh water? Also, he is about 2 inches long, at what size should we switch him to a bigger tank?

You don't necessarily need distilled or pet store water (personally I wouldn't get any water from pet stores) if your tap water is ok. You do need to add declor such as prime though. Water changes, water changes, water changes, puffers are very sensitive to an uncycled tank. Link below might help.


library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/

Yes, you need to do water changes. There will still be enough ammonia and then nitrite for the bacteria to feed on.

Distilled water is not good. Water contains lots of stuff (trace elements and minerals), and when the water is distilled, everything else but the water is removed, the things you need too.

If your tap water is suitable use that. Water needs buffers and trace elements.A PH of 1.8 is practically battery acid!!!

you need water changes and lots of them, You say you are adding aquarium salt( im assuming this means not marine salt) is this for therapeutic effect against the ammonia?? .25 is super high how are you measuring your sg? your numbers seem really wacky,(but that could just be from your anxiety right now). My advice stop everything and just do non saltwater water changes.

1.tap water
2.add dechlor
3.let sit and aerate vigorously(an hour minimum)
4.change water till no ammonia.
5.let him recover
6.get a bigger tank and fishless cycle it for him.
7.once settled in his new tank slowly raise the sg ( with marine salt) by .002 a week.

they are telling you not to change the water to help the cycle. The problem is Puffers as scaless fish are super sensitive to water quality, and either dont survive a cycle or have permanent damage done.

Keep testing and doing large water changes. The PH is very harsh and the ammonia will certainly kill him. LARGE water changes are a must until your tank gets cycled. Even see about getting an instant cycling product like Dr. Tim's. I killed my first puffer from a sky-high ammonia level in an uncycled tank, unfortunately.

Our hydrometer starts at 1.000, and our salinity is not registering above the 1.000 mark (the arm is floating a quarter of the way to 1.000). The aquarium salt that we have been adding is to reduce stress, the water from the fish store had some aquarium salt in it, so we continued to add it at home to simulate the pet store water. pH is at 8.0 (not 1.8!). We went back to the pet store and were told to add 10 mL of Special Blend to the water, which we did. They were blown away that we still had so much ammonia in the water after having this fish for a significant period of time. It's like we've been on day 3 of a cycle for several weeks now. They suggested that since we only have one fish, we didn't have a significant enough bio-load to grow good bacteria in the spans between water changes. Has anyone heard of this?

The bacteria should live in the substrate and filter. Huge water changes will reduce the ammonia level, but an instant cycling product will really help. Aquarium salt won't raise the SG.

pufferlover1686 wrote:Our hydrometer starts at 1.000, and our salinity is not registering above the 1.000 mark (the arm is floating a quarter of the way to 1.000). The aquarium salt that we have been adding is to reduce stress, the water from the fish store had some aquarium salt in it, so we continued to add it at home to simulate the pet store water. pH is at 8.0 (not 1.8!). We went back to the pet store and were told to add 10 mL of Special Blend to the water, which we did. They were blown away that we still had so much ammonia in the water after having this fish for a significant period of time. It's like we've been on day 3 of a cycle for several weeks now. They suggested that since we only have one fish, we didn't have a significant enough bio-load to grow good bacteria in the spans between water changes. Has anyone heard of this?

Special Blend? I've never heard of this. The only product that we know of that works reliably is Dr. Tim's. Tetra SafeStart is sort of iffy, but it's definitely worth a try. Most instant cycling products are useless, though.

Too much fish in too little water means that the cycle might never finish. You may need to get a bigger tank now.

sorry it was a formatting issue. i see what you wrote now. Generally when someone writes .021( full marine) the # 1.021 is understood, if below 1 writing 0.25 is best. ( or you will have a bunch of people scratching their heads ) a side note hydrometers are not super accurate, and i wouldn't extrapolate anything from it being below the 1.00 line ( other than its probably not 1.00)

cycles can take weeks and all the water changes will greatly lengthen it, but will keep your fish alive. Quikly changing from fresh to saltwater will also cause a whole new cycle.

trust me a gsp in a ten gallon will definitly provide enough waste for a cycle. In fact he may provide too much ( even ammonia oxidizing bacteria are sensitive to it)

Since the loss of the old biospira , I dont think any of these products really work.

Dr Tims worked well for me. The other option is to get used filter media from your fish store- assuming you trust it to be disease-free- and at the same salinity.

mrgreen wrote:Dr Tims worked well for me. The other option is to get used filter media from your fish store- assuming you trust it to be disease-free- and at the same salinity.

It seems to work well for some and not so much for others. I do remember reading something by Dr Tim( i guess that's his name) about people using to much dechlor while using his product, apparently it slows his products colonies from establishing themselves. I wouldn't worry about that in this case. What kind of filter is on your tank, with puffers it generally best go overboard on filtration.(not that its going to change much at this point)

So do massive water changes and ignore them?

100% yes!!!

At 10g, your tank may never cycle with a 2" GSP in it. If at all possible, try to get a 30g ASAP & put everything from your tank (substrate, decor, filter, water & puffer) into it as soon as it's set up. Be sure to use Prime to dechlorinate the new water you add & that it is the same temp ads your old water. Continue to test & do water changes accordingly. If at all possible, see if you can get Dr Tim's to add to your filter. Do not add salt, until your tank is cycled. BTW, Stresszyme does nothing for cycling tanks & aquarium salt does nothing to reduce stress.

Also, please remove the ammonia remover, this is preventing your tank from cycling. Read my sig: