The Puffer Forum

I have a 5 gallon heavily planted, high light tank with pressurized CO2 at 30ppm. Most are stem plants that grow very fast!

INHABITANTS

1 - Dwarf Puffer (pretty small)
1 - Amano shrimp (don't worry, he's 3X the size of the puffer)
1 -Nerite (again, 4X the size of the puffer)

I've been doing 50% water changes on a weekly basis. Then I have to dose back some ferts including nitrogen. If I don't, my nitrates will continue to stay at zero, the plants starve, and algae starts creeping in.

I target feed the puffer usually with a small live california black worm daily. I make sure he eats it all up, and that NONE of it falls onto the substrate. (A turkey baster is good at sucking up anything that's left). The tank for the most part stays pristine. This ensures that organics are at a minimum.

But then I've been thinking, is it really necessary to do weekly water changes, especially with zero nitrates registering? I was kicking around the idea of water changes every two weeks, or even every three weeks.

What dost thou say? <Flame suit on>

I do 150% WC on my heavily planted discus tank weekly & add ferts back (Yamato Green) afterwards.

Pufferpunk wrote:I do 150% WC on my heavily planted discus tank weekly & add ferts back (Yamato Green) afterwards.

Hmmm....150% huh? Is that 75% WC done twice in a row?

Yep, one at the beginning of the day & after all the other tanks are done, I go back & do another one.

if you were going to try it i would say bi weekly not tri and also perhaps to extrend the water change day by a day at a time, closley monitor those water levels..

Hey PP, your tanks are always so beautiful, I bet I'm not the only one who would love to see pics of your discus tank!

I'm waiting for a more recent pic:

Pufferpunk wrote:Yep, one at the beginning of the day & after all the other tanks are done, I go back & do another one.

Wow wee! Seriously? I don't think I've ever heard anyone else do that. You really do take water changes to a whole new level.

I agree though. You really do have a beautiful discus/angelfish tank. Do you use straight tap, or do you mix with RO water? I've been wanting to start up a discus tank for quite some time myself, but living in an apartment, my max. allowed aquarium size is 20 gallons, which pretty much kills the idea of having discuses. (Yup it's actually printed in the contract!!!)

But I digress. Back to the topic of water changes. I do have to admit that you are the first person I've known to do 2 water changes in a day as part of your regular routine. I understand that you do it for the sake of the fish, as I can clearly read in your signature. I get it, believe me I do. Most people I know go the route of doing weekly 50% WC as I do. But why go the extra two miles and do a 150% WC? Would it do any harm if instead you did just a single 75% weekly WC? I've never known any fish to NOT be stressed (even if a little) during a WC, even my faithful betta gets stressed. I'm just wondering if doing a second WC that same day is worth causing your fish more stress. Dunno. I'm asking simply because this idea of yours is very intriguing indeed.

genetao wrote:I have a 5 gallon heavily planted, high light tank with pressurized CO2 at 30ppm. Most are stem plants that grow very fast!

INHABITANTS

1 - Dwarf Puffer (pretty small)
1 - Amano shrimp (don't worry, he's 3X the size of the puffer)
1 -Nerite (again, 4X the size of the puffer)

I've been doing 50% water changes on a weekly basis. Then I have to dose back some ferts including nitrogen. If I don't, my nitrates will continue to stay at zero, the plants starve, and algae starts creeping in.

I target feed the puffer usually with a small live california black worm daily. I make sure he eats it all up, and that NONE of it falls onto the substrate. (A turkey baster is good at sucking up anything that's left). The tank for the most part stays pristine. This ensures that organics are at a minimum.

But then I've been thinking, is it really necessary to do weekly water changes, especially with zero nitrates registering? I was kicking around the idea of water changes every two weeks, or even every three weeks.

What dost thou say? <Flame suit on>

If you had a heavy plant mass with low light, low CO2, low ferts with a nutrient rich substrate then you could reduce your water change schedule however it appears that you are running a high tech tank where the theory is to flood your tanks with nutrients, CO2 and light for optimum growth, with this high tech set-up you will need to carry out weekly 50% water changes.

What about the matter of hormone buildup? As far as I know, plants can't handle that.

I believe they do break down given long enough a time, but a home aquarium does not have that much time and space. UV sterilizers with sufficient power may break them down as well, but are more useful for other things. Protein skimming in SW will remove a number and other organic compounds that aren't technically proteins. In fact, it works amazing on fats, and carbohydrates as well, as long as we're talking about nutrients. You know the aloe vera juice they use in stress coat? It's basically 100% carbohydrates, and it skims like CRAZY.

LilGreenPuffer wrote:What about the matter of hormone buildup? As far as I know, plants can't handle that.

What do you mean by hormone build-up?

Fish release hormones too. This is what stunts a fish when kept in too small of a tank.

I think a neat way to think about it is for us with clothes. You wear your clothes for a day and you're careful not to pee or poop in them (tough I know ). Does that mean your clothes are good to wear out the next day again. What about wearing them straight for a week or two? See, just because you don't use them as a bathroom doesn't mean that there's nothing else getting on them and they remain clean Similar for a fish tank. They release more than just feces too.

genetao wrote:But I digress. Back to the topic of water changes. I do have to admit that you are the first person I've known to do do 2 water changes in a day as part of your regular routine. I understand that you do it for the sake of the fish, as I can clearly read in your signature. I get it, believe me I do. Most people I know go the route of doing weekly 50% WC as I do. But why go the extra two miles and do a 150% WC? Would it do any harm if instead you did just a single 75% weekly WC? I've never known any fish to NOT be stressed (even if a little) during a WC, even my faithful betta gets stressed. I'm just wondering if doing a second WC that same day is worth causing your fish more stress. Dunno. I'm asking simply because this idea of yours is very intriguing indeed.

Discus need totally pristine water. Breeders do constant 100-200% WC daily. I used to do 90%/week but the bubbles sticking on the fish from expanding air in the pipes, killed a very old loach from the bends & he died a horribly painful death. The discus also look very stressed with the bubbles on them, so I do 2x75% instead, reducing the amount of bubbles produced from the new water. There is no stress from extra WC, because at this point, my tank's water is almost the same as tap water.

Iliveinazoo wrote:
If you had a heavy plant mass with low light, low CO2, low ferts with a nutrient rich substrate then you could reduce your water change schedule however it appears that you are running a high tech tank where the theory is to flood your tanks with nutrients, CO2 and light for optimum growth, with this high tech set-up you will need to carry out weekly 50% water changes.

I think you are referring to Tom Barr's Estimative Index dosing regiment, where you basically dose MORE ferts than the plants could possibly use up. Then at the end of the week, do a large 50% water change to "reset" the water parameters, so as to not over saturate the water with ferts. By doing so, you aren't required to test for anything.

I am actually using a modified version of this method. In my situation, I have been dosing the amounts that they call for. In the case of nitrates, I shoot for about 7 ppm nitrAtes. And I monitor often by doing water tests. In a way, it's more like the PPS (Perpetual Preservation System) http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... anges.html By using this method, you can in theory, do water changes less often because you are closely monitoring the water parameters.

I have to monitor my nitrates and phosphates regularly because of a certain picky plant I have called Rotala Macrandra. http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/foru ... t&spec=Red
This plant is pain in the arse! But is so beautiful that it seems like it's worth it.


Lil Green Puffer, I haven't really heard anything about fish hormones stunting plants. And even so, I don't think I've got anything to worry about. I've got HM and Bacopa coming out of my ears. I keep having to pluck out the clovers because they spread everywhere.

Puffer Punk, I never knew the high demands of discus. I just knew that they preferred high temps, very soft water, and were susceptible to hole-in-the-head. I never once heard anyone doing daily 100% or even 200% WC. What I meant by stressing your fish out was not so much the change in water chemistry, as I meant in the act of siphoning out water and doing general tank maintenance spooking the fish. Peanut will always come to me unless I'm doing a water change. I have an old betta (Twinkle) who is so trusting, that he allows me to pick him up in my hand, put him back in the water, and he will STILL come up to me for food immediately after! But when doing a water change, he will often hide. That's what I was referring to.