The Puffer Forum

This is the post I posted about 40 minutes ago on the Meet and Greet topic section thingy. Someone told me to post all this information on here so people can help me figure all this out! I'm not sure if he was refering to my fish or my tank or aything. Please read this post:

"Hi everyone,

I am a brand new owner of two very cute Green Spotted Puffer Fish!(:

One day I saw one of these cute, unusual cheetah looking fish, and I had to have one! So Christmas with half my family came, and I got some money. So I went out the next day and bought a tank, a GSP, food, and all that jazz. My brother's friend is in a fish keeping class at our school, and he has one of these fish. He told us that it needed atleast a 30 gallon tank! So that night my awesome dad went and bought me a 20 gallon tank, 2 really good filters, rocks, and plants and all what was needed for this fish, PLUS another one! The guy at Petsmart said everything will be fine for them in this 20 gallon tank if I take great care of it and the fish with the 2 filters.

I went the other day to Petsmart to get a water test, and He said everything was good. I've been reading, and I'm getting pretty nerves becasue I have no idea the pH levels of my tank, or the saltity, or anything besides how much salt I've put in, and the temp. What do I need to buy (that isn't all that expensive because my parents have bought over $150 dollars on this present that was not expected to be!)

Also, one of my GSP's, Quiwimoto, skin look really different from the other one, Hoover. Quiwi's skin (out of direct lighting) looks like it has sat in dust. His tummy is white though, so I hope he is all well... Hoover is great, except for his tail look like it was nibbled on by another fish (He was like that when I got him though, so I know its not Quiwi's fault) Could that be ick!?!? If so, how can I treat it that is super fast and super effective!? OR is that okay, and its just the color of his skin? When he is in the light, he has a very pretty green skin though. I haven't noticed it getting any worst or better since I've gotten him, so yeah... I'm just not sure.

When the guy from Petsmart said everything was all good... I dont know what that means! I didn't tell him anything so I dont know if this is what MY fish needs.

Another thing with Quiwi, He curls his tail inward, and stays like that for about 5 minutes. He swims around with it curled in and everything! It freaks me out so much! That and today, I walk into my room and greet my fish after a day of Christmad celebration, only to find Hoover swimming around like usual. Quiwi was sitting in his side of the tank (they keep to theirselves in the tank alot of the time) stiff, laying at the bottom of the tank, and not moving at all, except for his little eyes! I am freaking out! He looks at me (with his eyes, not moving his head) and just looks away. We stare at eachother like this for several minutes and then I have had enough. I get a strightened out wire hanger, that I use to get the rocks out of the plants and rocks, I go to poke him VERY GENTLY and he gets up and they both swim fast to this weird metal thing that came out of nowhere in their home! I'm guessing he is okay, but is this normal?

I think that is all the questions I have... for now. I am sorry this is so long. I'm just worried about them! Please let me know everything I need to know! The faster I get this information, they happier my fish and me will be!

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH! - Chloe Marie

(I am sorry for any typos! I am a horrible speller!)"

So I'm looking at all the things that are asked to be written before I post.... but you see... I have no clue!
I KNOW:
I have 1 tank. 20 gallons. 2 TOPFIN Power Filter20. I have 2 Green Spotted Puffer fish in the tank. 8 plastic plants. 1 cute little sign. 1 cool looking rock thing.(All the decor, I dont know the brands, maybe Topfin?) And a heater which brand and model I don't know. (My dad bought all this for me and had it all set up when I got back from a friend's house)
I have feed them "Wardley Tropical Fish flake food" a couple of times, I read that they didn't like flakes much, so I bought them some "TopFin Freeze-Dried Bloodworms" and have feed them that once. They didn't seem intrested in it. My dad bought them some "TopFin Shrimp Pellets" because the person from Petsmart said that GSP like them alot. I've feed them that (2 pellets each once a day) for 2 day. They dont seem intrested in food ever! and have leftover pellets lying on the bottom of the tank, that they go and nibble at not very often, but they sometimes do.

I got some "Bio-Magnet Clarifier for Marine and freshwater" stuff because they water was really cloudy, and the Petsmart guy said I could get some of that. I have had one filter running for 3 days, the other one for 2. (got the second one after the first) They 20 gallon tank was cycled for over 30 hours before I put in the two fish. When I did, I got a baggie and put water in it from the 1 gallon tank they weere living in (I didn't know they needed a large one when I got Hoover) and put them in the baggie. Set the baggie in the large tank for about 30 minutes to let the water temps be the same.

The tempature is between 78-80 degrees F. Its a weird themometer and I am not smart enough to tell what it really is. I stays like this allll the time. I havent made anby changes in the tank (except for getting another filter in there) since I got it.

The aquarium was set up Tuesday night, December 22. It was cycled after putting in 4 rounded tablespoons of aquarium salt.( The lady at the store told me I needed to put that in there. THe directions said 1 rounded tablespoon for every 5 gallons. ) by just running the water though the filter for over 30 hours.

I turn on the lights and feed them as soon as I wake up in the morning. Lately around 8. Turn off the lights around 10-11. When school is back, I'll get up at 6 and feed them and turn on the lights, and turn them off around 9 or 10. Is that too much light?

Now that I have all the information I know listed! I am sorry i dont know anything else. How do I figure out all the other things I need to know that are listed in the little red box?

ANYWAYS! About Quiwi, the one that i think is sick. After posting the post above, I went to go look at him and I found him all curled up! I noticed that his color was grey-er than what he is normally. His left fin was still swimming, and his eyes looked say and not normal. I got my little metal wire thing to see if he'd move again, and he didn't imediately like last time. I touched him gentely with the wire, and he loosened up a little but was still stif in his tail. His color then changed to more green in his top half. His tail was still curled (not as much) and the color changed a little more green but not as much as the top half. He straightened out his tail and it turned more green! Is this normal?

His skin looks like its dusty though.... and when he stops to rest his stops which are normally black, look like they got lighter. He goes in the light and everything looks normal, but yeah. Its weird... Please tell me it I'm not helping with my descriptions, and ask me anything that you need to know.

He started swimming around and I got a picture of him. He looks totally normal (well how he is all the other time, I dont know if this is a typical GSP looking fish). Anytime he is moving he looks fine. Anytime he is sitting still, he looks sick. My other GSP (in the same tank) does none of this.

Is his curling tail and skin color change due to mood? or illness? What can I do to fix either one if its a problem!?

I really dont know much about these fish, and am so happy to learn! please help me! and help me learn! I am sorry that it is so long! THANK YOU SOOOOOO MCUH! Your comments even if they are irrelevent to what I am talking about (even though I really hope they are answers) are appreciated greatly! I am just happy to have people to come to because I have no knowlege on these little animals, probably should have done research before I bought them! OH WELL! I tried to post a picture of my tank, but the file is too large.

AGAIN! Thank you, and I'm sorry its so long. -- Chloe Marie, Hoover, And Quiwimotto

hi chloemarie
sorry that you & your puffers are having such a rough time of it
there are several problems at hand here........
one is that the water chemistry is unbalanced, & therefore very unhealthy for your puffers
some of the reasons for this are:
tank is too small (see info in "Pufferpedia" under "learn" tab above)
tank is uncycled (see info in "The Puffer Library" under the "learn" tab above in the filtration section). read the section regarding "Emergency Cycling"
the food is not appropriate (see info in "The Puffer Library" in the "feeding" section). some of the water problems are due to the uneaten food in the tank
puffers have no scales to protect their skin, so unbalanced water chemistry and inappropriate chemical treatments and/or medication can do more harm than good
i can't help you out with the salt end of things because i have no experience in that area, but many of our other members do
the urgent things to do now are massive water changes & proper food
and please resist the urge to poke at them with anything
they are very stressed already, & that will only add more
fish in these conditions are also prone to disease because their immune systems are compromised, so you will have to become familiar with symptoms & deal with them accordingly, should they appear
i know that this is an awful lot to have to deal with
please do the best you can & we will too
hoping for the best,
eieio

Hmmm, this was rather long, so I skimmed through to get the gist of it. My apologies if I misinterpret anything.

Well, first off, it sounds like your aquarium isn't quite cycled. Cycling your aquarium is a pretty straightforward process, so I'll try to give a brief explanation and keep it simple.

When you introduce fish into your aquarium, a toxic substance called ammonia begins to buildup. The majority of it, I think, is derived from fish waste (poop). Though ammonia is dangerous to your fish (especially to puffers), a strand of bacteria will grow on any surface of your aquarium and consume this ammonia, thereby turning the toxic ammonia into slightly less toxic nitrites. Nitrites will still cause significant problems for most fish; however, another strand of bacteria will begin to develop and convert nitrites into nitrAtes. NitrAtes (note, the "a") are fairly harmless to your fish as long as they do not buildup way too high.

When a test kit indicates that your ammonia is at zero, nitrites at zero, and nitrates within a detectable range, your aquarium is cycled, and you will have established your aquarium's biological filtration.

Aside from that, start doing large (90 percent) water changes daily to keep the toxic ammonia and nitrites out of your aquarium until your biological filtration has finished its cycling process. This should make your fat little puffer feel quite better

There are methods to jump start the cycling process, but I will refer you to the emergency cycling article in the forum's library.

Best of luck.

are u using a water conditioner?/? i dont think u mentioned that, but its very important as some of the things added to tap water to make it safe for humans, is very dangerous for fish, so u need conditioner to remove these.

Okay, well my take on this is as Jivenjune says ... the tank is not cycled, which is not very good for the puffers. I would not worry so much about getting the salinity right, but in just getting your tank cycled -- and until it is, you need to do water changes, at least 50% daily. If you can get a live bacteria product, JBL does one called Denitrol, or Filterstart, they are both good. I would steer clear of adding any other chemicals (nothing to clear the water, etc.), as adding stuff can do more harm than good. If you know anyone with a fish tank that's been up and running for a few months, you could ask to borrow some of their filter sponge to jump-start yours, that's always a good way of getting a tank going. Or even some used gravel -- anything that will have bacteria on it from an established tank.
You also need to feed your puffers better food. Flakes are no good, and most puffers will not eat pellets. See if you can get some frozen bloodworm, or buy jumbo shrimp (preferably raw with shell on, but cooked will work if you can't get raw). You also should invest in some vitamins to soak the bloodworm in, as the puffers won't be getting much vitamin intake.
I would not worry too much about your puffer curling it's tail, some of my puffers do that, and I'm not sure why, but I don't usually bother about it and it seems not to cause any problems. You also have to keep in mind that puffers do sleep. They will lay on the bottom, usually with tail curled tightly around their body and that's the way they sleep. So don't assume right away that something is wrong when they are at the bottom. Just thought I'd let you know that so you don't worry needlessly.
But I would get the tank cycled, get your water chemistry right, and then worry about getting salt in the tank to make it brackish. The puffers will be okay in fresh until you can get the tank sorted. Just keep in mind, when you do finally add salt, not to add too much, as that will kill the good bacteria in your filter.
Obviously give a read to the articles in the library, or ask questions here too, we are all happy to answer any and all that you have.
I do hope that things work out for you and your puffers, they are great little fish.
I didn't welcome you to the forum, so let me do that now -- Welcome, nice to have you here!
Best of luck!

If you can get a live bacteria product, JBL does one called Denitrol, or Filterstart, they are both good.

Not sure either of those are available in the US (remember why we post our location?). Use ONLY the ones suggested in the Emergency Cycling article.

Thank you very much. I just feed them the bloodworms and they liked them a lot! Now their bellies are nice and full. I am going back to the store soon to get the water tested for all this information that I need to know, and will let you all know the levels and all that jazz.

Even though the guy at the store tested thte water and said it was all good, does that still mean my tank was not cycled properly?

(My dad still thinks everything is okay, and I'm going insane.. )

Even though the guy at the store tested thte water and said it was all good,

next time try to ask him for the actual readings

(My dad still thinks everything is okay, and I'm going insane.. )

did he read any of the re plays that we wrote to you?

I will get the actual reading, as soon as I can go.

Yes my dad read them... but he still thinks that everything is fine because they are swimming around all happily now. But thats after they got some good food. Before they were just floating around lazily. Now they are active again(:

I just remembered something about Quiwi... yesterday after being curled up, he was swimming around, then swam fast to the bottom of the tank and was rubbing his body against the rocks at the bottom, as it he was trying to get something off of him. Is this normal behavior? I couldn't see anything on him.

glad you got them to eat, that's a BIG step in the right direction!
your tank is probably not cycled, but without knowing the specific results of the water tests, hard to tell
the best thing would be for you to have your own test kits, so that you don't have to rely on the store
they may make mistakes that will steer you wrong
until you are certain that the tank is cycled, you must monitor the water testing very carefully
keeping a log is very helpful with that, the tests are easy to do & the cost of the kits is a fraction of what has been spent so far
A.P.I. (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Incorporated) makes very good kits, not very expensive
the main tests for you to do are:
1) ammonia
2) nitrites
3) nitrates
until cycling is complete, massive water changes are absolutely necessary!
please keep us posted and don't be hesitant to ask any questions at all
it's important to keep in mind that your puffers' may seem to be happier now, but that doesn't ensure that you are out of the woods as far as cycling is concerned
Quiwis' rubbing on the rocks may be due to irritated skin, possibly a result of poor water quality

did he hurt him self?

PolishPuff: No he did not hurt himself.

Eieio: Thank you for the help. I'm not sure who, but someone posted this link library/puffers-in-focus/an-introduction-to-green-spotted-puffers/ on my fisrt post. I read it and in the cycling part it said something about an instant cycling chemical thing. Can you tell me more about that?

chloemarie wrote:PolishPuff: No he did not hurt himself.

Eieio: Thank you for the help. I'm not sure who, but someone posted this link library/puffers-in-focus/an-introduction-to-green-spotted-puffers/ on my fisrt post. I read it and in the cycling part it said something about an instant cycling chemical thing. Can you tell me more about that?

there are two products on the market that seem to work
one is Dr Tims, the other is Tetra Safe Start
they are not chemicals, but are cultures of the bacteria (good, beneficial bacteria) that are established in a cycled tank, that will process ammonia into nitrites, and then into nitrates
there are many other products that you can get that say they do the same thing, but these two are the only ones that seem to be accepted by our forum members
the rest are all generally considered to be "dead bacteria"
Dr Tims & Tetra Safe Start may be difficult to find, as not many places carry them
both have websites with more specifics
i've used Dr Tims, with a little established filter media from another tank, and it worked out great for me
http://www.drsfostersmith.com sells both of these products

I guarantee you, if you bought the puffers & the tank at the same time, YOUR TANK IS NOT CYCLED & will show signs of ammonia/nitrite poisoning very shortly. The reason the tests looked good so far is because there wasn't enough time after you set up the tank for enough waste to build up in there. Basically, you did a 100% water change, so the water still looks good. Please go back & read the Emergency Cycling article.

Are you having trouble finding the articles? Here they are. Read them carefully.

library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/
(^^^ That article will mention testing your water. Use liquid kits, not test strips; I recommend the ones made by API.)
library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/

Here's one on ich, which your puffer seems to have. If he has it, so will the other, quite soon. The good news is that it's easy to treat while you're emergency cycling, since you're already changing so much water daily. You'll just have to add the medicinal salt and raise the temperature.

library/hospital/fwich/

These are also good to read:

library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/
library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/
library/puffer-care/the-story-of-puffy- ... ed-puffer/

Good luck, and welcome to the forum!