The Puffer Forum

The Facts:

Water:
pH 7.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrates 20

Tank:
55 gallons
305 Fluval
Double Bio Wheel
Light is on a timer on at noon off at 1am
inhabitants:
1 Fahaka Puffer
1 Stripped Headstander
8 Danios

Feeding/Wather Changes
Feeding every other day, either thawed shrimp with the shell, live snails, fiddler crab, crawfish. Also will eat Danios that are in the tank
Water change monthly about 35% of the water. Use prime to clear the tap water (I fill gallons of water and let them set until I need them, usually add a cap of Cycle to the water after the change.

No changes to the tank in the past 6 months

Tank has been set up for over two years, set up and let cycle for 2 months, had danios in it for the process.

The Problem:
Ok so I have had Chongo (Fahaka Puffer) for a little under 2 years. For a majority of the past two years he has been as expected a VERY aggressive fish. Didn't seem to matter what type of food that was added to the tank he would search out and devour; both live or the thawed foods. Now usually he was not the most active fish usually laying on the bottom and would mosey around the tank throughout the day but when food was added he was right after it. Then all of the sudden in the past few months he started not to go after the food that was put in the tank. He continues to eat but I have to grab the food with feeder tongs and hold it right infront of his mouth. Once I do this he will suck up what ever it is, but since he is a sloppy eater once a piece falls off or he dropps it he has trouble locating the food again. He will even suck up the substrate and spit it back out while searching. Once I grab it and put it infront of him he again takes it right down. Now his body is still in good shape no sucked in stomach, no spots, no signs of Ich. His eyes do not look cloudy or have spots. To me it looks as though he has gone blind, is this possiable? Could it be something else? Is there anything that can be done??

Please help I just want him back to his old self.

Thank-you!

Hello!

A 55 gallon aquarium is way too small for a 2 year old Fahaka and with the other fish in with him it's a big overload on the system. You'd need to be doing at least a 50% WC weekly not monthly. Your parameters look good but i'm not sure how with such an overstocked tank. I'm not trying to give you a hard time just letting you know it's probably uncomfortable for your fish. Now I don't know if this would cause blindness in a fish or not but it's a cause for concern. Some fish can get pretty lazy, does it seem like he notices you or the other fish in the tank at all?

Hi kingFUGU
does Chongo seem to move his eyes in relation to things other than food?
in other words, if you were to offer him some non-food visual stimulus, such as hovering an object in front of him (perhaps something
like a small pebble tied to the end of a string), would his eyes seem to respond to it?
you might try this at various distances.
let us know, and i'll try to think of some other "vision tests" to try.

I know that if I feed Pookie alot he tends to get lazy and wont move around much. I made this mistake when I first got him but now limit his intake and feed him things he has to chase (crayfish and ghost shrimp). Maybe he likes you giving him "breakfast in bed" so to speak.

Thanks for the info, as far as the 55 being to small, there is one piece of wood in there to that stands up in right conrner to offer some hunting and hiding for both him and the food. He gets around the tank normally and is about 6 inches long. I do understand but I did a LOT of research on the puffer before purchase and believe that he would be fine in an open tank with swimming room. As far as over stocked the the headstander is about 2 inches and the 8 danios are about a half inch each. In accordance to everything I have read it is about a gallon of water per inch if fish, that being said it would be about 12 gallon tank to over crowd and kill everything instantly (over dramatic but you know what I mean) The fluval 305 is for a 75 gallon tank and the double bio wheel is for a 55 gallon tank, so the reason the water paramaters is so good is I am going above and beyond in the filter department. I understand your tryint to help I am just trying to make sure you know what I am working with. Also this is not my only tank, I have another 55 community, a 35 gallon salt (GSP), and 10 gallon salt (Mantis Shrimp). I do the same method on these and I have never had a problem.

Visual Stimulius:
To be honest I have not "tested" him like your saying but he does move his eyes around and he will come up to the surface or middle of the tank when I am putting the food in with the tongs.

As far a the breakfast in bed idea, I do know what you mean here I also keep a green spoted puffer that I bread from "freshwater" to full salt. I feed him generally the same types of food he did get lazy with the tongs, so I got back to more ghost shrimp, snails, hermits, ect. Chongo (Fahaka Puffer) just leaves the snails alone and I drop them right in, the fiddlers crawl around the tank and he doesn't notice.

An inch per gallon only works on thin fish with a light bioload. Like neons or danios. Plus, from what I understand it's only for rank beginners who don't understand bioloads, efficiency, and eating habits.

If you went crazy with a knife and got an inch of a neon and an inch of a puffer would there be a size difference? You bet, a huge one.

Your tank is overloaded and you aren't doing enough water changes. Period.

The min tank size for an adult Fahaka is 125 gallons...I Know the whole one inch of fish equals a gallon thing and that you have added extra filtration but i'm not sure it's enough. Puffers produce alot of waste and are extremely touchy to Nitrites and ammonia. Like PufferPunk says some fish just don't get as big as others but at 2 years old Chongo should be close to full grown. A fahaka will grow an inch a month it's first year and should top out at around 18 inches give or take. I know you've done alot of research and there are conflicting arguments on subjects like this but as a Fahaka owner I truly believe that they need more water volume than most fish.

Fahaka's are natural hunters so if you are willing to try this you can not feed him for a couple of days and then add some live food to the tank...like a crayfish that he'd have to chase or hunt out. However, in doing this you will risk the lives of the other fish in the tank. If Chongo gets hungry enough he may snack on his tankmates
if he has gotten lazy on you, you can try to give him more stimmulation...like putting a small bouncy ball in the tank and see if he plays with it or adding more decor to get him interested ect...there is a topic on this...i'll see if I can find it for you...

Visual Stimulius:
To be honest I have not "tested" him like your saying but he does move his eyes around and he will come up to the surface or middle of the tank when I am putting the food in with the tongs.[/quote]

putting food in with the tongs may not be a good indicator, since he may be responding with "learned behavior" at feeding time
that response may be influenced by smell, sound, and especially timing if his feeding schedule is consistent
i think puffers are a lot like dogs in this respect
i think it would be better to test him with something that he is not at all used to, as puffers are naturally curious & usually respond to something new or interesting
too bad they can't read an eye chart (so far as i know )

Your tank is overloaded and you aren't doing enough water changes. Period.[/quote]

I understand what your saying as I said before, As far as the bio load goes I do get that as well. If the blindness was due to water quality I would imangine that ph/amonoia/Nitrate ect something would be off. Aside from talking about tank size is there anything that yopu know that would cause blindness or this behavior? Do you know anything about the blindness issues that I am having?

Your right eieio....the Pavlov experiment, Chongo could be reacting to a conditioned response..when he hears the sound of the tongs or KingFugu getting his food ready he surfaces and gets ready to eat...

putting food in with the tongs may not be a good indicator, since he may be responding with "learned behavior" at feeding time
that response may be influenced by smell, sound, and especially timing if his feeding schedule is consistent


Agreed I believe the responce to the tongs is a learned behavior, but I do not like not feeding him. As far as letting him go for a little bit and adding live foods I am willing to give that a try, like 3 days?? Also I appericate your concern for the tank mates but the Danios, well I expect it with them and I like giving him the thrill of the chase so I would be fine if he gobbles them up and totally understand this is in the puffers nature. I honestly never thought about giving him a vision test. I will be home later today and I will try the ball idea or just a pebble on a string.

So if you followed that gallon/inch rule, you think your puffer would be OK in a 6g tank? That rule is only for 1-2" slim-bodied fish only. I would get your tests done at your LFS to be sure they are correct.

-- This is all I've been able to find out so far -source Aquatic Community

If your fish appears blind without any previous trauma or infection to it it's likely caused by excessive lighting or poor nutrition. Dimming the lighting and improving the diet can in these cases help prevent more fish from going blind but will not help the fish that has already gone blind.

I know we've hassled you about your tank size ect but these things can play a factor in your fish's health. Please understand that we are only trying to help and that typed words can come across different than spoken ones.

Pufferpunk wrote:So if you followed that gallon/inch rule, you think your puffer would be OK in a 6g tank? That rule is only for 1-2" slim-bodied fish only. I would get your tests done at your LFS to be sure they are correct.

No i do not think he would be fine in a 6 gallon tank. The fish needs room to turn around and swim. I understand that. The USAUL tankmates are Chongo and the Stripped headstander, it used to be the danios would last about 1-2 weeks as he would hunt them out. NOW THAT HE SEEMS BLIND HE IS NOT HUNTING THE WAY HE WAS. That is why I am trying to see if there is anything I can do to help him out.



The LFS is where I got my water results from. Took it there on Sunday.