The Puffer Forum

I'm curious about how krill gives a puffer lockjaw?

I have a baby porc puffer and I have been feeding him krill. I've been trying to vary his diet, but he really loves that krill more than anything. I posted a question before about how to get him eating different things, but I only got one post back (thx qthorse). I'm just wondering if you aren't suppose to feed krill, what's the difference with shrimp? Wouldn't that cause the same affect? They are basically the same right? How is it proven that krill gives lockjaw or is this just some confusion between that and his teeth becoming overgrown from not eating shelled food? Is it possible that only one of these facts is true?

Other than trying to understand that truth, I am working on trying to get my porc puffer (which is about 4in) to eat some new foods. I've had him for about a month in a 65g tank. The only thing he goes for is krill and ghost shrimp. He has just started eating crab meat, but I have to basically put it right in his face. He won't eat squid or clams on the half shell. I even have small hermits and nerite snails and he doesn't eat those either. I need to start getting him some shelled foods. Any suggestions?

Does anyone have some meal plans out there? I haven't seen a great answer to how often and how much to feed this guy. I've seen twice a day to every other day; which one is it? I know it will change as he gets bigger, but I want to make sure I'm doing the right things now.

Ok there has been a few studies done on the effect of krill with the porc puffer. Although inconclusive a lot of results do point to krill causing lock jaw in porc,s and alot of people reporting lock jaw in there porc who has been feed a lot of krill (so better safe then sorry). As far as feeding goes if your guy is just small once a day should be fine and as he/she gets old every other day is better. Lots of things you can try, go to your grocery store and buy frozen raw shrimps, mussels, seafood melody. Keep frozen only taken out what you need the night before and soak in some vitamins overnight. You can also try to get your guy eating other things soak his food in garlic (fish love this). You could also try black worms or nightcrawlers as some people call them, available at any bait shop ( make sure that you don't see any of the white foam balls in the earth with them) or in your backyard if you don't use any chemicals. Please also keep in mind that you are going to have to upgrade your tank to at less 125 gl within the year.
Hope this helps a bit, and good luck.

Thread posted by the #1 SW puffer expert in the world:
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic72164-10-1.aspx

Great advice from both. I greatly appreciate it. As for the forum rules:

1. Water parameters
pH - 8.3
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 30 (any suggestions on keeping this low other than water changes?)
Salinity - 28

2. 65g tank, 50lb live rock, live sand, fluval 305
tankmates - 2 clown fish, diamond goby, blue angel, sifting sand starfish, multiple hermits and snails and 1 cleaner clam.

3. Feeding is every evening. It was krill, but I have been trying to get away from using it. It has been ghost shrimp and crab meat the last two days.
I plan to do water changes every week. 10-30% (trying to get those nitrates down) I've done a water change the last two weeks (first was about 5%, second was 30%).
I use Cycle every week and pH puffer if needed as well as PurpleTech.

4. Changes - first death of the tank - a shame face crab a few days ago. not sure what happened.

5. The aquarium has been set up just over a month. I may have stocked too quickly, but my tank cycled fast using Cycle and the proper filtration. My fish look very healthy, I just want to make sure they stay that way.

I'm up for any more discussion... I want to get this right.
Any advice on keeping nitrates low (other than water changes, which I plan to do weekly)? Does Amquel work? Cleaner clams? etc?

I know that you might not think your tank is over stocked as it is a 65 gallon but you must understand that puffers put out a lot of waste and this is where your high nitrates are coming from, along with having quite a few tank mates. First off I don't think you have your salinity written down right is it 1.028? If so that is high, people usually keep it about 1.020 - 1.022 unless keeping a reef tank then it is a bit higher. Also a lot of people around here don't agree with having a mechanical filter (fluval 305) with a saltwater tank, but instead using a good protein skimmer and live rock. Usually about 1lb per gallon of live rock. We have clients that do use a mechanical filter on their saltwater tank but with the skimmer is it taking the nitrates out before it is getting into your water so in the end saves you $$$ on water changes, as you don't have to do as many. You should be doing at least 50% water changes a week if not more,( you could do a larger amount of water changes at one time and this is not going to hurt your fish, bacteria that is keeping your tank cycled isn't in the water). This is about the only way you are going to get your nitrates down (although PP might have an idea with adding the vit C). You don't need to use cycle ( that stuff is crap) , but you do need to use a product to dechlorine the water such as aqua plus every time you do a water change. You also need to make sure all the salt is dissolved before adding to the tank. I also like to add Trace elements ( store bought) at every water change.
Hope this helps a bit.

I understand that I need a bigger tank. I really would like to get about a 250-300g tank so that they will all have adequate room to get to full size. I was under the impression I had a few years to before needing to make this upgrade. Looks like I may be getting a 125g in the near future. As for the salinity, my hydrometer shows the specific gravity as 1.021 and the salinity as 28, so it looks like I'm in the right range. I am going to do a water change today. It works best for me to just get my water from the lfs (which is a minute up the road) because of the RO/DI water. My tap water has about 10pp of nitrates and a low pH, so the lfs appears to be the best option as of now. Would you suggest adding a protein skimmer to the tank even with the fluval? What's wrong with mechanical filters? It seems to do a wonderful job in combination with my live rock. It also adds circulation and oxygen to the tank. I have a powerhead as well.

pabst wrote: What's wrong with mechanical filters? It seems to do a wonderful job in combination with my live rock.

With a nitrate level of 30 that statement isn't quite true is it?
Here is a link to some discussion on the subject.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18069&p=189912&hili ... er#p189912


Like I stated before lots of people do use canister filters on there saltwater tanks, it is the difference between doing two water changes a week or one every two to three weeks, but this all depending on size of tank and tank mates. Think of the money you can save on salt.

I just finished my 50% water change and installed a protein skimmer. I was a bit disappointed when I tested my nitrates after and it just went to 20pp. After reading through the link you posted, it seems as though I can still keep my canister filter (I sure hope so, otherwise it was $200 wasted). I know it will take some time for my protein skimmer to start doing its job. My question now is, should I clean out the media in my canister filter? I know fluval has some media for nitrate removal, should I try getting some of that? What exactly should I do? I want to have the best possible filtration system I can for keeping those nitrates down. Should I get a sump?

Get the nitrates down again. 20 is the max that should ever be in any tank. Are you sure that your nitrate test is accurate? What test are you using? Are you shaking the heck out of the bottles? If your nitrates were 30, a 50% water change should get them down to 15. Are there nitrates in the tap water?

You can keep the canister filter, but you need to change the media in there. Waste-trapping media will negate the skimmer's work. Rubble rock, on the other hand, would be great.

I use API saltwater test kit. I have been paranoid with nitrates since I got my tank. Within two weeks of my tank running, my nitrates were about 80 with my test kit. I went to two different lfs's and had them test my water, both said they were lower than what I was reading. They said it wasn't possible for my nitrates to be that high yet. Unlike my lfs, I actually followed the directions for testing (shaking the bottles). I finally went to the one lfs and took my test kit and water. They weren't shaking the bottle and I proved my point that my nitrates were higher than what they said. They gave me a new test kit. Lets just say I don't trust them with water testing anymore. I have to say though, I was showing really high nitrates (80+) at three weeks and that's when I finally decided to go against my lfs and do a water change. I will say my fish were fine with the nitrate levels so high. Maybe my test kit is bad. Is there another test kit I should try? I still get my water from the lfs because I have nitrates and low pH in my tap water. I made sure the nitrate levels were low before putting the water in. I will do another water change in a few days and change my filter media. Is it ok to get rid of all that media that has the bacteria on it? My lfs said that needs to stay in the filter to keep the tank cycled. Is taking out the filter media going to cause my ammonia and nitrite levels to rise since my tank is just over a month old? I don't want to create more problems.

Don't get rid of the current media. Get a lot of live rock instead (1-1.5lbs per gallon), and then take out the media.

The fish are more susceptible to infections and parasites when nitrates are high. 80ppm is really, really, really bad. How high are the nitrates in your tap water?

SW filtration is basicly live rock (with powerheads to move water around it) & a protein skimmer. You can use the canister for chemical filtration, which is carbon or Purigen but really not necessary if not keeping a reef. I have rubble in HOB filters to act as a mini refugium for pods to grow in for my smaller tanks but they still need to be rinsed out every few months, as they clog with debris.

Stop adding Cycle--you're just adding more waste (dead bacteria) to the system.

I get RO/DI water from the lfs up the road (0 nitrates). I've had 50 lbs of uncured live rock since the beginning of my tank.

I'm curious... could I put LR rubble in place of media for my canister filter as well as some nitrate remover? Would it be the same affect as using an HOB filter, but running it through my canister.

I wouldn't bother with nitrate remover. If you started out with uncured rock, your tank would be a mess. It takes several weeks for rock to totally cure & in the meantime, the ammonia/nitrate is off the chart & the water is uninhabitable.

The only thing showing was high nitrates. I'm pretty sure it was uncured, it was still in the box at the store and the guy said it came straight from Fiji. It definately wasn't scrubbed off.

So what should I do exactly? Since my nitrates are 20, should I keep doing repeat water changes until I get them really low? Should I get rid of the media or not? and what should I replace it with (carbon and purigen?)? I'm assuming Rubble in the canister filter could jam up the motor? No nitrate remover?