The Puffer Forum

I recently started working with a girl who said she wanted to get fish. I told her I had fish and loved them and would be happy to help her set up a tank. The next morning she arrives with a 1/2 gallon fish bowl, full or colorful rocks (that were not pre-cleaned) and a parrot Cichlid, 2 tetras and puffer fish. She filled the bowl with tap water and dumped in all 5 fish. I've never seen anything so horrid in my life. There were so many fish in that bowl they couldn't swim without crashing into one another. To make matters worse they all had ick and fin rot, except the tetras (she purchased them from nnnnnn). I did some fast talking, got her to give me the dwarf puffers and brought the Cichlid back to the store and let her keep the two tetras in the bowl. I'm sure they won't last the weekend, poor things.

So now I have the puffers in my 10 gallon hospital tank which I keep cycled incase my goldfish need it. But they have so many ailments I'm not sure what to treat first...the ick or the fin rot. But I'm wondering if I can treat them both at once. Good News is they are very active still and have an appetite. I tested them on some bloodworms and they gobbled them up. But if i don't get rid of the disease I'm sure they won't last long.

I purchased Ick Away from wardley (I've used it before with success) and API E.M. Erythoromycin (anti-bacterial meds) for fin rot. However, reading on about puffers I've found you can only use certain types of medications because they don't have scales....what's the best for them? I'd like to know if anyone has had success treating these issues? If I can treat them both at once? If anyone has any advice on home remedies or just insight in general on puffers I'd love to hear it. Frankly I'm a goldfish person, but I've fallen for these darling little puffers and it's my mission to save them. If anyone can help ASAP i'd be grateful.

In answer to the questions about levels....

Ammonia- My tap water tests at .25. I use Prime to reduce this, however I have trouble getting a read below .25. My goldfish however have lived happily in this water for over a year. Not sure what goes on with my water, but I change it religiously and my fish are happy. It's never been above .25 however.

I've never tested for anything other than ammonia. I've never had puffers. I don't know about PH and all that. i will get a kit ASAP and find out.

only the 3 puffers live in the tank.

I feel every other day...but I have goldfish and that's different. I've only fed the puffers once to see if they had an appetite and YES they do. I'd like to know how often puffers should eat.

The tank is a hospital tank for my Golds. I change the water bi-weekly to make sure it stays fresh...my routine with the goldfish is a weekly water change of 50%. With the puffers I'm changing about 75% every 24 hours.

Sounds like you have your work cut out! Its a bit quiet on the forum tonight, but I hope some of the experts will be on soon, to give you advice & help. I don't even know where to start advising! Good luck.

I have replied on kokos to your post:

If some morning you get up and it looks like someone has salted the body, fins, and gills of your fish, you are looking at "Ich", sometimes called ick, or white spot disease. "Ich" is a protozoan parasite with the scientific name of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is the largest of the ciliated protozoans. It is easily introduced into your tank by new fish or equipment or plants that have been moved from one tank to another. A quarantine tank is the best way to prevent introducing this parasite into your display tank. If you see ich on your fish they should be treated immediately. In heavily stocked tanks it can cause massive death rates within a very short period of time. Some symptoms before white spots appear may include flashing, clamped fins, weakness, loss of appetite, and decreased activity. In the case of heavy gill infestations, you may not see evidence of white spots, but may find your fish breathing heavily at the surface of your tank. Secondary bacterial and respiration difficulties may result, so keep an eye out for complications in addition to the ich infection.

The best way to prevent ich, as I stated above, is to quarantine all incoming fish. A minimum of three weeks in quarantine (in my opinion) is the best way to go. When kept at 76 to 83 degrees, incoming fish that have been exposed to ich may show symptoms within the first 3 days. However, at cooler temperatures, ich outbreaks may take longer to show up because of its lengthened life cycle. Water temperature has a tremendous effect on how fast the life cycle of ich is completed. At water temperatures of 75 to 79 degrees F, the life cycle is completed in about 48 to 72 hours. In water temperatures below 75, it takes much longer for the parasite to complete its life cycle.

LIFE CYCLE

There are three phases to the life cycle of this protozoan. Ich is susceptible to treatment at only one stage of its life cycle, so knowing the life cycle is important.

ADULT PHASE: the parasite attaches itself under the mucus layer of the skin or gills, causing irritation and the appearance of small white spots. As the parasite matures, it feeds on blood and skin cells. After some time, the parasite breaks through the mucus layer and falls to the bottom of the aquarium.

CYST PHASE: after falling to the bottom of the aquarium, the adult cyst bursts and divides into numerous daughter cells called tomites.

FREE SWIMMING PHASE: after the cyst phase, the free swimming tomites search for a host. If a host fish is not found within 2 to 3 days, the parasite dies. Once a host is found the whole cycle begins again. These three phases take about 28 days at 70 degrees F but only 3 days at 80 degrees F. For this reason it is recommended that the aquarium water be raised to between 80-86 degrees F. for the duration of the treatment. If the fish can stand it, raise the temperature to 86 degrees. Raising the aquarium temperature in this manner will shorten the length of time between the cyst phase and the free swimming tomite stage. It is during the free swimming tomite stage that chemical treatment is effective in killing the parasite. During this time, whatever you use for treatment should be supplemented with daily or every other day water changes and gravel vacuuming to remove as many adult cysts and free swimming tomites as possible.

TREATMENTS

Before starting treatment you should do at least a 50% water change and vacuuming of your tank. I also suggest doing 50% water changes every other day of treatment, to reduce the number of parasites in the water.

I do not like to use meds w/my puffers, except in a heavy infestation. All natural Melafix is helpful to treat any damage done to the puffer's skin from the parasite. If you run into any severe secendary bacterial problems, Pimafix will help.


One tablespoon of salt per 5 gals. of aquarium water (for FW puffers) gradually raising the temperature to 86 degrees F. Continue with this for a period of 21 days, adding back 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gals of aquarium water that you remove during water changes. One thing to remember with high temperatures is that you should run an additional air stone to oxygenate the water. There is less dissolved oxygen available in warm water than there is in water at cooler temperatures.

Written by Dawn R & Pufferpunk, (aka Jeni Tyrell)


Nitrites and ammonia must be 0

I am so happy that you are rescuing them!

In regards to your questions with medicine combinations- I feel that if you treat the worst looking sickness first (I'm sure they both look bad), and then maybe after a day (or two treat) them with the next medicine (after a 20-30% water change).

Also put in some aquarium/ocean salt to jump-start the healing process for both infections!


I am NO expert but that is what I would do in your situation!

Good luck to you and your fishies and keep us posted!

Welcome to the wonderful world of puffers! Thanks for saving these guys.

About your ammonia reading, Prime doesn't remove ammonia - it neutralizes it. It's still in the water, and the nitrifying bacteria can still consume it, but it won't hurt the fish.

how much and how often should puffers eat? They consume anything I put in there within seconds. I decided to feed them once in the morning and once in the evening, but I'm wondering if this is too much or two little. I'm feeding about two pinches of blood worms each time.

It worries me a little that whenever I go to feed them they become vicious and nip and attack each other. There's one guy that hangs back till the last minute...almost afraid to approach the food. He also spends a lot of time hiding in the plants. I think the other two have him bullied and I feel bad for him.

What kind of puffers are they?

Dwarf puffers should eat daily, and you should feed them until their tummies are quite round. Here's a picture, post-feeding:



Have you read the feeding and diet article in the Library? It's under the Learn tab at the top of the page.

Dadof4 wrote:What kind of puffers are they?

astacialmp wrote:I did some fast talking, got her to give me the dwarf puffers

Crap, I need t learn to read.

I'm always missing those little teeny details, too...

You can certainbly treat both at the same time. Follow the ich areticle (found in our Library) & treat the fin rot with Melafix. If there is fungus, add Pimafix too.

All you've been doing on the QT is water changes? How have you been keeping it cycled? Have you been adding ammonia?

I'm sorry, I'm dense, don't know what Qt stands for. Yes...cycled, water changed. Using prime... Is there something else I should be doing? The fish are active and lively...just can't seem to get rid of the ich. And it's looking like there are more dots now, not less. Should I do a 100% water change or maybe increase salt? I'm just worried about shocking them. I'm feeling at a loss. At least they are acting happy, and I will say their color has improved from very dingy to a brighter green. I'll go ahead and add Melafix to the water.

I was going to worm them for internal parasites, but the directions said not to feed them any regular food until after the 3 day treatment. Wasn't sure if that would weaken there system...but also thought maybe a food wormer would somehow combat the ich. Any insight on that?

QT=quarantine.

Are you using Jungle Labs dewormer? Are they actually eating it? Mine wouldn't touch the stuff.

I don't think that the IP treatment will help with ich. Who knows? But you can't expect the ich to be gone yet. You must treat for a full month, even when you can no longer see any cysts. I wouldn't worry about there still being cysts at this point - just keep treating.

It is good to know that you CAN treat both sicknesses at the same time!
I was afraid of any adverse effects that combining medicines might have on the little guys..
Well.. I am glad I will know what to do if I ever come upon a situation like this (I REALLY hope I don't with any other fishies or my little guys!)