The Puffer Forum

Hey Guys! So I seem to be having some issues with my fishless cycle...it could just be some impatience but seems to have gone on too long for that!

So I set up my tank about 3 weeks ago I believe, it is a 47gal with an SG of 1.005 at about 80 degrees F. My tapwater naturally has an ammonia reading of about 1.0, 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. I'm using Prime to neutralize the ammonia and chlorine.

So the day after I put water in the tank I added some SafeStart (the FW equal to Bio-Spira which is now only for salt-water). I was going to use Dr. Tims but my LFS was all out and they're supposed to be pretty similar anyhow. So a day or two after adding the SafeStart I was getting Nitrite and Nitrate readings. I also was adding a few drops of ammonia to the water each day to keep the bacteria alive. The way I understand it when ammonia is bound to Prime it is still available for the bacteria to consume it just takes longer? So over the next few days my Nitrite reading was climbing and my Nitrates got to about 5.0 and ammonia would quickly go back down to 0. A week later the nitrite's had seemed like they were "stuck", as in they just stayed at a high reading and didn't change for several days. After that I decided to try Seachem's Stability just to cover my bases bacteria-wise. I was still adding ammonia to the water but as the nitrites got higher and higher with no sign of relief I cut back. Well after the 7 days of adding Stability were up (per directions) I did a 40% water change because Nitrites were still really high. Now, after the water change, ammonia is still 0, nitrite is at about 1.0 (and again not going anywhere, water change was on Wednesday) and nitrates are between 5.0 and 10.0.

I'm just not sure what I should do! It doesn't seem like anything else is happening? Of note, I have a seperate 5al tank I set up the same day that is FW that I added snails to the next day along with SafeStart and Stability and that has been fulled cycled for about a week or more now. Any ideas greatly appreciated!!

Fishless cycling can definitely take a while (between 4 and 6 weeks). Not really sure what else to say but to wait it out?

Yeah, I guess I'll have to wait it out and see what happens.

I may add some snails to the tank and let them settle in so when the puffers go in they'll have some snacks to hunt down....maybe the snails will push the cycle along.

Thanks!

I have about 1.0 ammonia in my tap too.. When I did my fishless cycle it took forever (well over a month) I had to leave town and left the tank alone, for a week and it was cycled when I was back. Maybe you adding to much stuff to fast?

That could be part of the problem. I just get worried that if I totally stop adding ammonia the bacteria will die! I don't know if I should stop doing anything and just leave it for a week and see what happens or keep adding a little ammonia to feed the bacteria?

So I still seem to be having troubles with my cycling ! I left the tank along for over a week and nothing changed. Now I've been adding a little ammonia (enough to bring it up to 0.5 to 1.0 ppm) every few days once it reaches 0 just to keep the bacteria alive. My nitrite has spiked way off my scale (which goes to 25) but has been that way for several weeks with no change. I am getting rising levels of nitrate but nitrite stays the same. I have been cycling for about 8 weeks now !

I am tempted to just start over! I am cycling the tank at an SG of about 1.005, but I am debating bumping it up to full marine, adding bio-spira and some cultured media from my LFS, and getting a Valetini puffer, a pair of percula clowns, and a captive bred bangaii instead. Problem is I don't have live rock in the tank and no room for a sump underneath. I actually like the look of the tank a lot right now and would prefer not to add LR.

Just not sure if I should stick with it or start over? I just can't believe it's been 8 weeks with no sign of change.... help!!

How new are your test kits? Is it possible that the kit is just messed up, so you're getting funky readings?

If you think it's toast, try doing a 100% water change, add in another dose of ammonia (up to the 0.5 to 1.0 range), and see how your readings go for the next week. If your readings are still wonky, I'm not really sure what to suggest.

My test kits are all brand new, I'm using both API kits and Seachem kits to double check all the readings and getting wonky readings with both!

I'm still debating but I think I may just start over and switch to saltwater and give bio-spira or Dr Tim's a shot!

Instead of using Prime, why don't you get another product only to neutralize the chlorine? If you need ammonia, and you have 1.0ppm in your tap water, why do you neutralize it?

I just have been using Prime because of the good reviews and reputation it has. I also only need the ammonia during the cycling process, after cycling I won't want the 1.0ppm of ammonia added to my tank. The way I understand it the Prime binds the ammonia so it is no longer "free-ammonia" which makes it less toxic for the fish until it can be converted to nitrite.

Should I switch to another chlorine-removing product for now?

Nah, the use of Prime shouldn't be affecting your cycling process at all. Well, before switching to saltwater, do a 100% water change and try for another week. If the process doesn't seem like it's going to stabilize, then just go marine.

That sounds good, I think I'll give that a shot, thanks!

Sorry, I am not condemning the use of this product. I just thought you could save some Prime when you'll really need it, since you need the ammonia that comes from your tap water to do the fishless cycling. Also, I guess every products that neutralize ammonia/nitrite can disturb the cycling, just because you are saying the nitrites doesn't move for some days ago. I still repeat: don't neutralize the ammonia you need right now, do it later when you have fish in there.

Prime doesn't destroy the ammonia, it just binds it so that it's not toxic to fish. Prime also dechlorinates, which is likely why he's using it on his tap water (and not necessarily to neutralize the ammonia). After it binds, it's still able to be processed by the bacteria, which is why it doesn't hurt the cycling process.

Granted, though, I don't really know why his tank isn't cycling, so I can't comment much on that. Is it possible that your filter media has Zeolite or something in it, which is locking the nitrite and thus it cannot be converted properly? This happened in my brackish tank. The zeolite (that I didn't know was there) was locking my ammonia and preventing a cycle, and the brackish water was constantly recharging the zeolite, so I was never able to get nitrite readings. Once I found out, I removed the filter media and replaced it with normal stuff, and things progressed smoothly and quickly.

Hhhmm, I don't think my filter has Zeolite in it but maybe it's hidden in there somewhere! I use a Filstar XP2 canister with just the polishing pads and the bio-chem stars for the bacteria to grow. My ammonia was being processed just fine into Nitrite, it's that just Nitrite just climbed and climbed for over 4 weeks and never did anything else!

I decided just to start over, did a 100% water change and am actually going to try to cycle it at full saltwater and get a saddled valentini. I plan on replacing the bio-chem stars in my filter with some LR rubble if I can.