The Puffer Forum

Hi, I've got a problem with my fish and apologies but this is quite long so I can give you all the info you may need to advise! I have 2 colomesus puffers an Elephant Nose and a bristlenose plec ( they have all lived together peacefully for ages).

Cycled a new tank for them as outgrew the old one, finally moved them all over on sat. Left lights off and didn't feed them. Also put the old filter into the new tank alongside the new one just to be safe.
Water params were all good on sat. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, ph 7.5

Sunday they all seemed well, nitrite was 0.1 though. Turned the lights on and fed them. After a few hours, the puffers tails went red and they were both in the corner with labored breathing - last time this happened it was a bacterial infection and we lost 2 fish from it. These 2 survived from using esha 2000.
So I added the esha and turned the lights off. By the afternoon, there was still nitrite of 0.1 in the tank, ammonia zero, nitrate 5, ph 7.5
The redness in their tails went down, they were happily swimming round but only the larger of the puffers ate which is unusual. The smaller one didn't (not when I was watching anyway) and had the redder tail.
As soon as I turned the lights on again last night, they got upset again, in the corner, labored breathing and looking very stressed, so i turned them off again. The nitrite is still 0.1

This morning they are swimming about happily again, but only the larger puffer seemed to want to eat. (the EN and Plec are completely fine).

Can anyone help, I don't know if it's possible the lighting is too bright? They were in a tank before with a black lid and only one light, fluval uno. This new tank is the rena 100 cube, it has 2 lights and a white lid so it is a lot brighter. It's really weird that as soon as i turn the lights on the tails go red and they get upset.

Obviously I can't keep the lights off, and I have a planted tank now so the lights need to be on.
I also should do a water change shouldn't I because of the nitrite but can i do this with medication in the tank? Could they be ill from stress?

I've asked on another fish forum but no one seems to know enough about these puffers so I'm really hoping someone here who knows a little more can shed some light on what's going on! I'm really concerned I'm going to lose them. Would really appreciate any help or advice you can give me.

Thanks a lot, Nikki

A few things:

The laboured breathing does not imply a bacterial infection, so I would stop with the meds immediately and do a water change to remove it. I believe the laboured breathing could be from a few other things (especially since they're in a new tank). First and foremost would be that they simply don't have enough oxygen. Are both the filters canister filters? If so, that's almost definitely the reason. Although you have plants, I would highly advise that you add in an airstone with very fine bubbles and a powerhead that pushes that oxygenated water around (the finer the bubbles, the better the result). I've seen firsthand how much of a difference oxygen can make in fish.

If you feel they're getting enough oxygen, are you using CO2? It's possible that your CO2 levels are unbalanced from having a newly established tank with new plants that are trying to root themselves. Remember, plants use up Oxygen when the lights are out, so you need to supply oxygen at night if you're using CO2. (Generally, the larger hang-on-back filters provide enough cascading water to supply enough oxygen).

Also, they're likely very distressed from the Nitrite level. Because puffers are scaleless, they're extremely sensitive to ammonia and nitrite toxins (and nitrate if it gets too high). As such, you need to do some water changes to keep the Nitrite down until the tank establishes itself (which shouldn't be too long). You could also dose with Prime dechlorinator to ease the toxicity of the Nitrite, which might be worthwhile in your case (depending on the volume of your tank).

It is also likely that they do not prefer the new light, especially if its significantly brighter than the old one. I've heard many stories of puffers disliking bright lights.

I just moved my puffers to larger tanks on Sunday. I'm also going through a mini cycle in the fw tank. Just dose your tank with prime to help with your mini cycle and cut back on the lighting, then increase the time a little each day over the next week. Your plants should be ok. That's what I had to do with mine (also a planted tank). My puffer has settled down and is now begging for food constantly. They just need some time to get past the mini cycle your going through and time to adjust to their new surroundings. You could also do extra water changes this week until the mini cycle is clear. I've been doing a 25% w/c daily. Hope this helps.

Hi, thank you to both of you for your speedy replies. I wish I'd come on here in the first place!!

I'll do a 25% water change as soon as I get home then and stop the meds. I only thought bacterial as the red tails were the 1st signs last time, but then this disapears as soon as I turn the lights out which I suppose wouldn't be the case if it was bacterial.

I think I have enough oxygen? I have 2 filters running which both let out quite a bit of flow and the 2 bottom dwelling fish aren't at the top looking for air.
Filters: from the old tank is a fluval 3, has 2 foam pads, the new one is a large rena foam filter - both internal, underwater filters.

I did buy an airstone to put in the tank but haven't done this yet, so I'll try and add this in also when I do the water change if this will help. I don't think it has a powerhead though.

I'm not using co2 in the tank yet, just using a feed every week and the lights, but now the plants haven't had much light at all since saturday.

Re the water conditioner I only have Nutrafin aquasafe - is this ok or should I go out and get prime instead? What make is this one?

I'm so glad you said that you've heard of puffers not liking bright light, on the other forum they told me it wouldn't be anything to do with that and it's because I have an EN in the tank with them which is probably stressing them, but they've all lived together for so long with no problems and it can't be pure coincidence that it's only when the lights go on. If their tails go red again what should I do, should I just ignore this and continue with the lights anyway - is this some sort of stress response?

I'll turn the light on for a short time tonight again and see how they respond... could I remove one of the bulbs do you think or would this not be safe?

I hope you're right that they just need a little time, I'd be so upset to lose them, had them since they were tiny and they're quite big now and have great character!

Thanks again for your help!

Yes you could remove one of the bulbs and then add it back later once they are settled.
I use prime by seachem becuase:
1) A capful treats 50 gallons
2) I have large tanks and prime is more concentrated.
3) Most other conditioners I would have to use 1 capful for each 10 gallons.
4) Prime treats chlorine and chloramine, I have both in my tap water.
5) I think it's better than any other conditioner, but that's my preference.

After Ike my plants went 10 days with no lights. They all survived. Although after 10 days of darkness they were starting to look rough. We were going to give the lights one more day to come on, if they weren't on we were going to hook up the lights to the generator. They came on that night. Your plants should be ok.

Just keep testing your water as you were doing and stay on top of the water changes until your tank is through with the mini cycle. And add your conditioner to help with the nitrites. Also adding the air stone is not a bad idea. More oxygen is always better. Keep us updated.

Thanks, we just did a 25% water change, added the air stone, it is on a pump so very powerful bubbles now in the tank along with the two filters. (Very noisy though, OH not too impressed!)

They seem fine this evening, although the smaller puffer still has a red tail and didn't seem to eat infront of me, but his stomach did look like he may have had a sneaky mouthful without me noticing. Not sure. They both need their teeth clipped also but not sure it's a good idea whilst they are stressed? Maybe this is also bothering them.
I added the Nutrafin aqua safe as normal (also treats chlorine and chloramine).

Put the lights on for 15mins only this eve, they didn't appreciate it but they didn't react too badly either. I really hope this settles and they are ok.

How long did your puffer not eat for after you moved it into the new tank? Don't want him to starve

Annabelle ate the next day. She's in my fw tank that's going through a mini cycle.
But I'm having trouble getting Chong to eat (saltwater puffers). My nitrates jumped up to 40 so I did 2 50% water changes and plan to do another on Sunday. I'm sure the high nitrates has something to do with it. We also lost his brother Cheech, after that he kind of went through a depression stage. He wasn't swimming around much, his belly got really black and he would hang out on the rock where we found Cheech. He had a black belly for about 7 days. The last two days his belly has been white. He showed some intrest in food yesterday but didn't eat. I'll be feeding them in the morning, hopefully he will eat tomorrow. He's definately not starving, his belly is still nice and round. I'm not too worried yet.

I take that back! He just ate a piece of shrimp! I'm so excited! Nine days of refusing to eat. After typing up the last message I decided to cut up a shrimp and give them a snack to see if Chong would eat and he did!

That's great news he ate after all this time Sorry to hear about your loss of Cheech

Well, this morning bigger puffy was happy and eating, smaller puffy's tail was less red I think (lights off and dark so hard to tell for sure) and swimming happily. Hubby said he was really sure that he saw him take a few mouthfuls off of a rock so I'm keeping my fingers crossed he's improving.
Have left the lights off again today, will put them on when we get home and see how they react.

I feed them bloodworm - they refuse to eat snails, mussels, cockle.... I've tried hiding bloodworm in the shells etc, but no, only bloodworm is good enough! Any other ideas to encourage them to eat?

Tested the water this morning also, ammonia 0 and nitrite had gone down a little after the water change last night, less than 0.1, still a tiny tiny hint of pink, but almost 0. Should i do another water change tonight? Not sure how much to do without stressing them, but do want to get that nitrite down to 0.

Another water change won't hurt anything. If he's nipping at the rocks he's looking for food. That's a good sign. I feed my puffers shrimp from the grocery store. I cut it up into pieces and they love it. You could also try soaking the food in garlic, it's suppose to improve their appepite.

Prime also detoxifies Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate while still allowing the toxins to be converted by the beneficial bacteria (thus not interrupting the cycle). If your dechlorinator doesn't do this, you should switch over to Prime the next time you have to pick up some dechlor (trust me, it's worth it).

As for refusing snails/muscles/cockle, usually it just takes them a while before they understand what it is. For snails, I had to crush them between my fingers and drop them in so that they could smell and eat it. After the first bite, they couldn't get enough. I also always "show" them the food before they get it, and I make sure they're excited. I like to think this helps me when introducing new food.

Also, if you're *only* feeding Bloodworms, I'd suggest picking up some other things to mix with it (like frozen Mysis shrimp, frozen brine shrimp, etc.). I like to mix a cube of blood worms and a cube of one of the shrimp every 2nd or 3rd feeding, just to give them some variety. The other feedings are either muscles/clams, shell-on shrimp, scallops, octopus, squid, crab, etc. (depending on what I have in the freezer).

If you can only get them to eat bloodworms, you should pick up some liquid fish vitamins (there are a couple good ones, but I forget the names). This can at least compensate for the lack of variety in their diet. Personally, though, I'd try to switch them onto crustaceans/invertebrates as soon as possible, as its much healthier for them. Like edmlfc1 said, soaking them in garlic (either mash up a clove and soak it in the food's water, or buy the liquid stuff) usually does the trick.

As for the oxygen, internal filters don't cause a lot of oxygen exchange in the water unless you have them pointing at the surface (thus creating a lot of surface movement). Also, with air pumps, you need to make sure they're very fine bubbles so that the oxygen can easily be taken in by the puffers. One trick is to put the air stone near the intake of your filter, which allows the filter to chop up the bubbles and spit them across the tank. Try that for a few days and see if you notice improvement.

That's great, thank you!

Well last night when we got home, did another water change, nitrite is now just a tinge of pink but below 0.1. We turned the lights on and they were fine for the 1st time We then offered food with the lights still on, the larger one ate as normal, but the slightly smaller one ate like he hadn't eaten in ages!! I was so so happy, it was like suddenly something woke up in him

Don't know if it's the water change, adding the airstone or that he's just got over the stress of the move, but he's so happy now, pacing the glass like a lunatic as normal! Maybe it's a combination of all these things.

I've got the bubbles hitting the flow of the water from the filters so there seems to be a lot of movement in the water now. They're not huge bubbles but I wouldn't say they're fine either?

I'll see if we can get prime over here, sounds like a good product but I don't recall seeing it in any of the LFS here - do you know who makes it?

I'll try again with snails - are there any type they're supposed to like the best? Colomesus from what I understand are very stubborn and hate trying something new - and so far that's been proven right! I'll also get some frozen shrimp - do you know if this is ok for my En and plec also? The good thing with the bloodworm is they all eat it.

Thank you again so much to both of you, I think you've helped save my puffys!

Not sure about the EN or Pleco eating shrimp. I usually feed my Pleco's algea waffers, they love it. They can be hiding somewhere in the tank and when I drop the algea waffer in there they rush over and attach theirself to it. It's comical to watch. Prime is made by seachem. I order mine through drsfostersmith it's about 50% cheaper than any lfs, but you have to pay shipping. I always make sure I order plenty of things I need to cover the cost of the shipping.

Glad to hear things are going good now.

im not sure where abouts in the UK you are but prime can be a little tricky to get hold of at a lfs but is readily available on the net. I have 2 stores down in the south west that sell it but normally end up getting it off the web!