The Puffer Forum

This is going to be a long post, I apologize.

Annabelle's tanK:I checked the water in Annabell's tank this morning. She is going through a mini cycle after the tank change which I expected and I'm dealing with that. I just wanted to post the details of her tank just in case something goes wrong.
Amm .50
PH 6.8
Nitrite .25
Nitrate 0-5 (same as it was in the 29 gallon)

Tank mates: about 20 guppies
Equipment: Eheim 2213 (was on the 29 gallon for over a year), Rena xp3 (unestablished)
Sponge filter moved from the 29 gallon(after adding prime to the new tank)

The problem:
Moved her from a 29 gallon to a 125 gallon on Sunday. The day I moved her I forgot to put prime in the water and I'm sure that I killed off most of the good bacteria in her filter (eheim 2213). And I'm sure this is the reason she's going through the mini cycle. I'm doing my water changes and she is doing great so far. She's eating, napping, exploring and begging for food. I have not had any dying guppies since I've added prime. Before I added the prime they were dying within minutes. This is when I realized what I did. I wanted to post this for future reference if I need help in the next week or two.


Now for the bigger problem.
Elvis Tank
Recently in a 125G (running for about 18 months) and moved to 156G
Amm. 0
Nitrite 0
PH 8.2
Nitrate 40
SG. 1.020

Tank mates:
Elvis 10" (S&S)
Cheech 3-3.5" (GSP)
Chong 3-3.5" (GSP)
Daisy 1' (snowflake eel)
Sailfin Algea (3")
Wrasse (3")

Equipment:
Bottom Drilled tank with a 55 gallon sump/refiguim using a mag 18 and protein skimmer.

During tank move: I added new sand a few days before the move and let things settle. The day of the move, I moved all the lr, added more lr, added all their sand, their water and all the water in the reserve 55 gallon drum. All lr was cured that was added. On monday I picked up more lr (also cured) and added it to the tank.

After moving Elvis, Cheech and Chong to their new home from the 125 G to the 156 G, my nitrates shot up to 40. I'm thinking that the move caused the nitrate spike. Before the move the nitrates were at about 20. I moved them to a holding tank, then I added all of their sand and lr from their tank. I think when I stirred up the sand from the move this is what caused my nitrates to spike. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Since the move I have been making water for a water change. This takes me a few days (sadly). I'm thinking about just using tap water and prime to do my water change instead of ro/di. Do you think this will hurt them?

Also since the move Cheech and Chong refused to eat. We lost Cheech 2 days ago. I was devistated! When I first got Cheech and Chong (20 months ago), one of them scratched their eye on some decor so I seperated them for a few weeks to treat the eye. During that time neither one would eat. After putting them back together in the same tank they ate like pigs and stuck to each other like glue.

Today:
Chong is swimming around his belly going from white to black but refusing to eat. I don't know if it's the high nitrates or if it's depression. Here's the odd thing, the morning that Cheech died he was swimming with Chong not far behind, his belly was going from white to black also. When he would come out in the open his belly would go white, when he went over the rock his belly would go black. When I found him that night it looked like he had been skinned on each side of his body, just one strip on each side. Like when you skin a catfish. All I can think of is that maybe he got spooked and got caught in between some rock and it skinned him. I can't think of any other explantation.

Elvis is eating, Daisy is eating and the Wrasse is eating. I tried to feed Chong but he would swim away from me and hide. He was acting like he is terrified of me. Or mad because I took his brother away. I plan to do a 55g water change tomorrow, and another on Sat.(using tap water and prime) if you agree that would be better than waiting a few days to make more water. I'm at a total loss and need help desperately.

I, cant help with answers to your question, but i only ever use tap water and prime, (i dont have a RO unit). i just wanted to say how sorry i am to hear about your loss of Cheech, and i really hope that Chong will eat for you soon and stay a healthy happy little puffer

Thanks blondenblue, I appericate it.

Oh my edmlfc1, what a lot of stress to deal with!

On the tap vs RO question, I guess I would say test your tap water and make sure there are no nitrates or ammonia, just to be safe. If there are none, or they are very low, then I'd go ahead and use tap water, as bigger water changes are better than less frequent, higher quality RO water changes (although do what you can with RO, it can really help).

There's no ammonia readings in the big tank? That seems weird that your nitrates would jump up but your ammonia didn't.. huh. If there was rotten food or something trapped in the sand/rock, you'd think you'd get ammonia?

Poor little guys.. Maybe if you keep the lights off and the room quiet Chong will settle down better? I wonder if everyone is busy defining their new "territories" and that's why he's stressed on top of Cheech dying?

Keep us updated, I hope everything straightens out.

I agree about the tap, it's perfectly fine for FO systems, granted it tests out at 0. Most inportant are WC. Keep in mind, lots of puffers sulk after being moved.

My amm. in my tap water is always .50-1.0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. I spoke to someone that builds ro/di units before. If I run the water through the ro/di my water test 0 amm. , the waste water test .50 amm.
He said this is because I have chloramine in my water as well as chlorine and that's why I always get an amm. reading.

I'll be off this weekend so I can run the ro/di all day saturday and sunday and try to get another water change in sunday night or monday morning before work. I would rather do the ro/di and not take any more chances.


Myaj, I thought that was strange also. I tested the water everday since Monday and the nitrates have not gone up or down since the initial increase. Nitrites have been 0, and Amm. 0 every time. I figured the nitrates shot up because I moved the sand over, causing it to stir up alot of mess. Usually my nitrates rise within a week but they haven't budged, they are staying at 40. I expected some kind of a mini cycle but I have not seen anything on the 156 yet.

The 125 is going through a mini cycle right now. The 125 just started to show nitrites on the test this morning.

I'll keep you posted. I'll check their water again in the morning before and after the water change.

Did you check your tap water after adding Prime?

No, it's straight tap water that I tested. I didn't add anything to it. From the faucet to the glass tube.

I am sorry for the loss of your puffer.
Perhaps the move and the loss of his friend made him depressed.
This may sounds strange but after Pondbottom died, Middle has never been the same. He is more reclusive now. I really think that fish can be affected by loss.

I have heard of people using double doses of prime to reduce nitrate in a SW system, maybe you should try that? The nitrate might be what's causing Chong not to eat.
Of course it could be depression, sorry about Cheech!

have you considered that you adding something nasty in with the new live rock? Any other signs of illness at all? Maybe you are getting ammonia spikes but the live rock is dealing with it qucikly, so it's not testable...

not good, very sorry it's happening.

t1gerbee, if it were amm. spike's wouldn't the nitrates be rising? They have stayed at 40 from Sunday to today. I just did another test and they were still 40. Doing a water change right now and I'll test them again. Today Chong's belly is staying a bright white, he still refused to eat this morning.

Just finished my water changes and tested Elvis, his nitrates are now 20. I plan to do another either tomorrow or Monday depending on when my water will be ready. I'll keep you posted.

your nitrates wouldn't necessarily rise, remember your live rock transforms nitrates as well as ammonia/nitrites ... so it will be consuning nitrates, but depending on how high they were to start with then it may be taking longer for the live rock to get through the nitrate build up...

thinking about it, if your nitrates are steady and wasn't reducing then that could be an indicator of an earlier ammonia spike, with a set up like yours with live rock/sump etc you'd expect to see that nitrate coming down, as it wasn't it may show that the rock was having to deal with nitrates above 40ppm at some point...

do you have loads of flow through the live rock, so it can effectively filter the water?

Great the nitrates are down now, hope you can get puff fedding again, maybe live river shrimp will peek his interes again...

From what I can see with the swaying of the algea it looks like the flow is pretty good around the rocks. I'm not sure about in between the rocks. I really need to rearrange them. I don't think Elvis has enough swimming room. I'll probally work on that tomorrow and then do another water change afterwards.