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Levamisol treatment and pH
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:04 pm
by lunarflame
So, my dear Bumble died, and we're pretty sure it was internal parasites.
I want to make sure that if i get another puff, it will not have parasites.
I want to treat with Levamisole, however it only works with a pH of around 6.6 My pH is 7.4 or so.
So, here is my question, would it be ok to use an acid buffer to reduce my pH for the period of time that I would be treating, and then slowly stop using the buffer, or would the puffer be too sensitive for these changes?
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:22 pm
by Steelgeek
I've been doing a lot of research on levimisole and saw the ph bit, but never saw what started it, or anything to back it up, just word of mouth.
Have you seen other data about that? If so I really want to check it out.
I wonder if its an osmosis thing?
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:04 pm
by RTR
I have never seen any cautions or warnings re:pH & Levamisole. I just browsed multiple pages of Google search on same and found zilch.
Do you suppose that because a soultion of the agent in water is acidic, people got confused?
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:39 am
by Jayhawk
Here's a link that discusses pH and levamisole, but it's only an issue (as far as I know) when dosing the tank instead of the food:
http://www.loaches.com/faq_parasites.html .
I don't hang around loaches on line very much anymore, but I seem to recall Dr. Momfish was a vet. When I bought levamisole from my vet once to dose a tank, I was given the same advice about pH. My pH was 7 or 7.2 (I can't find my old notes) and it worked fine.
So...I'm not sure I've added a darn bit of value to this thread.
Eric
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:12 pm
by Steelgeek
Oh you did help a lot!!!
Subject: lone clown loach
Posted by Dr. Momfish on Wednesday, 17 February 1999, at 12:48 p.m.
The loaches imported from Malaysia are notorious for having internal parasites. The best thing to cure them with is Levamisole hydrochloride. You can get this drug from a farm feed supplier. It is available as 'oblates' or infectible. Use 800mg per 10US gallons and make sure your pH is about 6.6. If the pH is above 7 the drug is made unusable.
The drug is absorbed through the gills of the fish, so even if your fish is too sick to eat, it will get the full effect. After 24 hours do a very very large water change. Repeat the dose after 3 to 4 days because any eggs or casings present in the fish are not affected by the drug. Therefore, you have to wait until they hatch.
Unfortunately the intestinal walls of some fish are so badly damaged by the parasites that they will not survive despite the fact that they will be free of the parasites.
I have found that big city vets know nothing about the use of this drug except for sheep and cattle. Tablets are available at the pharmacy, but they are prohibitively expensive, as they are now being used to boost the immune systems of AIDS patients. As a side effect, they also boost the immune systems of your fish.
The local lfs had 12 small clowns that they were going to destroy. We brought them home. 9 survived and are now big, fat and happy. Three died due to severe intestinal damage resulting in perforation of their abdominal walls. If you are 'into' purchasing wild caught fish, you should keep this drug on a regular basis, regardless what part of the world the fish come from. All wild caught fish should be suspected of carrying internal parasites, whether they appear to be ill or not. Transportation stresses decrease the fish's ability to withstand the debilitating effect of the internal parasites. Quarantine all of your fish and dose them. The drug has absolutely no effect on the biological filter.
I have a feeling that ick and other opportunistic parasitic infections of loaches has a lot to do with the fact that various internal parasites weaken the immune systems of these fish. Fish can have internal parasites and still look fine. It is only when the immune system of the fish is incapable of keeping these in check, that the fish begins to show signs of disease and disease susceptibility. (Much like with human beings who live in areas of the world that are endemic to Giardia.)
Levamisole hydrochloride is not a dangerous drug. It is somewhat expensive when purchased as the injectible. Unfortunately, the 'oblates' which are fed to sheep contain a lot of insoluble and soluble excipients. If you dissolve them and filter through a coffee filter most of the junk will be removed. However, some of the soluble stuff will get into the water. This is only pectin-like and aids in providing a slime coat on the fish and it breaks down to provide fertilizer for the plants.
That adds to what I knew about levimisole, and I am quite grateful that you posted it. It appears ot be very sound advice. I'm going to contact this person and see if they can add to it. Thanks again!
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:06 pm
by Pufferpunk
I am adding the above on to our Levamisole thread.
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:43 pm
by Steelgeek
I'm waiting til I feel I have a good handle on the treatment then I plan on writing it up in a single article.
There are still some things I have questions about that I want to get answered before then.
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:55 pm
by Pufferpunk
Go ahead & change or add to it as you wish.