The Puffer Forum

I need help. lol, what else is new, right ?

I are now officially confuzzled and I think we should review the info we post about Green Spotted Puffers.

I'm sure most of you know, I have quite a few GSPs. Way back in the day I was totally convinced that there were 2 kinds of GSP. Ok, I admit, maybe there are not 2 "kinds" but rather 2 branches of the same fish that require very different water. Either way, we can't ignore their differences. So even if they are the same "species" they are still getting killed because of the popular vote on whether they are FW, BW or SW . They are clearly all 3, so one must observe the one they have to determine its waters. Not just auto - salt or auto - brackish. There are some ( and I have them in my possession ) that absolutely hate salt, unless it is very very light. They clearly look different from other GSPs I have seen.

Now here is what I need help explaining, defining, discovering ... whatever you want to call it.

I have 2 GSP puffers about 3 inches long with few large dots and NO ABILTY to change their belly black/brown what-so-ever. The most they can do is grey their spots out to try to match their green, which they lighten. Belly is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS white. They live peacefully in a 75g light brackish aquarium with two 5.5 inch sabahensis/Giant GSPs. They do marvelous together. I tried putting them into the salt water aquarium to see their reaction and they didn't blacken their bellies but rather got 2 black/silver stripes along their sides where the green pattern meets their white belly. Thats it. Their bellies remained white but they were clearly not feeling the same.

I had purchased another GSP and put him in with them ( the light brackish ) and he didn't like it, not one bit. Insta-belly black and complete darkening of the back, then he went and cowered in a corner. So... I put him into my FULL SALT WATER tank and he perked right on up to 100%, really white belly and amazing green color. This one has many many little dots as opposed to the larger,scattered dots. This one very much CAN change his belly color to black/brown.

????????????????????????????????? I thought these were the "SAME" fish ?????????????????????????

The "same fish" can not possibly require both kinds of water at the same time... its one or the other...lol, brackish is the median. 2 of mine hate salt in high amounts where as the other one NEEDS salt in high amounts. Clearly something happened somewhere and 2 similar fish emerged. They might both be GSP's but I personally think we should re-write it so that people are encouraged to pay attention to what their specific puffer is telling them.

So please share your GSPs specs. here. Post on this thread.

Size, Water, Spot size, Ability to change belly color OR Grey Spots. I want to compile a little list and see whats the deal.

I am telling you - these little details ARE helpful in determining the water needs, if not their "differences".

-UMB
(P.S. - Sorry I went MIA for a bit there. )

I'm new to the GSP thing, and have only had mine for a little over a month. I have never seen mine with a black or even grey belly, even when I first got him and he was in extremely stressful situations. The most he gets is blackish marks on either sides of the mouth, and these dots seem to come and go. The only real stressor I can link them to is slight boredom. I have noticed that he pales out very very slightly now and then, especially when the lights are out, but it almost a lightening to his overall appearance rather than just his spots. Generally, except for the black marks by the mouth, he looks the same all the time.

I've read about the black belly thing, or even fish turning almost completely dark. I wouldn't test it, of course, but I get the sense that no matter how stressed my GSP got he wouldn't go black. I have been very meticulous in his care and tank conditions, excepting when I first got him and didn't know what to do with him. Then, he spent two days in a small bowl with another GSP while I figured things out. I was totally surprised by how tough and resilient these two little fish were (one has since been adopted), and very surprised they survived the ordeal. But, again, I saw none of the blackening of bellys in either fish at that time, and they had to be totally stressed by their conditions.

My GSP currently lives alone in a 29 gallon tank. His water is nearly fresh, with only 1 TBSP of salt per gallon. I intend to slowly increase the salinity over the coming months to the brackish water recommended for these guys. I am not sure how I can tell if he likes his water or not, since he never changes colors. He's about 1.5 inches long. The spots near his head and down his back are lighter in color than those down his sides, but this does not change. And again, his belly is always white, never black, and never grey.

I'm not sure where my puffer fits in with what you've observed, but I'm interested in reading the results of this thread, particularly because I'll be altering his water conditions over the next few months. I have to admit I struggle to understand the required salinity for a fish which has evolved to migrate between both fresh and brackish. Logically, it seems to make sense that fish in the wild will choose the habitat (salinity) that's best for them, but when they do so by food supply or water conditions or mating or all of the above is something I'm not sure can be accounted for in a home aquarium.

It sounds to me like you have the nearly freshwater ones like the two I have. They can't change their belly color to black, but they should be able to lighten their spots (grey them out) and lighten/darken the green on their back. I'm guessing its spots are larger and more spaced out as opposed to many little ones with a few big ones here and there ? As far as I have seen with mine, these will remain quite small, maybe 3 inches or so max. Mine have grown very little and I have had them for over a year.

Let me know

I agree that there is likely more than 2 (I believe around 3) fish we refer to as Tetraodon nigroviridis. Ebert (aqualog puffer book) also noted wide differences in terms of need of salt depending on origin.

However, I would like to know which SG you are talking about. What is the light brackish?

Oh and...

The 2 GSP's that I have, have small dots and lots of them. Their belly does goes grey/brown especailly when sleeping. Their color will fade and look pale. They are both in my saltwater tank SG 1.020. I know the other GSP you're talking about but I don't have one of those.

Here is one of my little guys while sleeping behind a rock:


Here's one with a side view:


Here's one with a front view:

Corvus wrote:I agree that there is likely more than 2 (I believe around 3) fish we refer to as Tetraodon nigroviridis. Ebert (aqualog puffer book) also noted wide differences in terms of need of salt depending on origin.

However, I would like to know which SG you are talking about. What is the light brackish?

Oh and...

You are right! lol, I just found my camera yesterday, so I will take photo's of each of mine and post them here along with the salinity of each tank. I'll post them later tonight once I get home from work.

Are you sure the ones with larger dots aren't F8s?

Here is a pic of the adults I kept in SW, who would get dark bellies while feeding:

Addendum to my first post: I fed my puffer a ghost shrimp for the first time today. He didn't pay much attention to it at first, but eventually cornered it in a cave-live area, apparently unsure of what to do. During this time, his back went almost completely dark (belly still white) while he stared at it in the cave. This is the first time I've seen this coloration in him. When his colors came back, he seemed to put two and two together, and he attacked and ate the shrimp.

His belly is so big from one shrimp!

marksrush wrote:Are you sure the ones with larger dots aren't F8s?

I am 110% sure these are no F-8 Puffs. I do have some F-8s but the fish I am talking about are def. not F-8 or Ceylon. Though you are kind of right... in a sense. I have never seen my F-8's belly change black but I do believe the Ceylons can.

Pufferpunk wrote:Here is a pic of the adults I kept in SW, who would get dark bellies while feeding:

Really? They changed their bellies brown/black when eating ?

I have 2 huge ones like this but i can't figure out how to make them happiest. I can't tell if they are giant GSP's or if they are Sabahensis or some abomination. I don't know if I should put them in FW, SW or BW... nothing seems to make them 100% happy like their smaller counterparts. They always like to sit near the bubble blower, hovering near the waters surface. I believe they are in BW around 1.018 - 1.020 or so.

Do you recommend I put them in Saltwater Pufferpunk ? I don't want them to die and I certainly don't want to accidentally kill them. These are really the only puffs I have not been able to figure out. Got DP's, F-8's, Regular GSP's (in 2 salinities), Chelonodon Patoca's, Lorteti's, Auriglobus Silus' , SAP's and a Pignose puff all on lockdown.... but these 2 give me a headache!!!

My goal is to get their bellies as white as possible for as long as possible. I understand they will not ALWAYS have white showing... they will stealth, hide, blend in and sometimes just be scared which can all lead to color change. But if I could get mine looking like yours Pufferpunk, I'd love you forever!! ( I'm sure they would too )

Pics of my puffs should be up tonight sometime between 5 + 8 pm EST. So you can see the spot size etc...

Another thing that is different between my GSP's is their little belly spines. On the ones I have in very light BW - I can physically see their tiny spines protruding from their belly. On the SW one and the large ones I can't see any spines on their belly what-so-ever. I can see tiny spine holes all over their sides and back though on the SW one. I cant see anything on the giant GSP's.

Beats me

My 2 fellows looked exactly like the common lil juvies all GSPs resemble & then grew ito their color patterns. Both bought at 2" from the same tank. There really isn't much difference between the SG you are keeping them in now & SW. A skimmer & LR would work in your SG too.

Pufferpunk wrote:My 2 fellows looked exactly like the common lil juvies all GSPs resemble & then grew ito their color patterns. Both bought at 2" from the same tank. There really isn't much difference between the SG you are keeping them in now & SW. A skimmer & LR would work in your SG too.

How long did it take for them to grow from 2" to giant GSP ? I have had these 2 little ones for at least a year and a half and they haven't grown much. My F-8 is bigger than them... thats pretty sad. .

Do you remember by chance what your SG was ? I thought it needed to be a little higher than 1.020 to be saltwater.

Ptrobably about 1.022. I didn't want to use too much salt, since even with a skimmer, I was still doing 50% weekly WC until I added LR & soon after that, I rehomed them. It took 2 years for them to go from 2-6".