The Puffer Forum

Hi all,
Question pertains to a Fahaka puffer.
Our water supply is VERY soft with minimal GH and no KH to speak of. The problem is, with the way our town treats our water it can come from the tap at up to 9.0 PH! I've found that letting it age for 48 hours or so, it'll drop down to 7.2 and pretty much stick there. That is, until you start adding driftwood and poop (no, not mine, it's from the fish! jeez people what are you thinking?) when, since there is no Gh or KH, the PH can just plummet in a heartbeat, going as low as 6.0, which is the bottom of my test kits limit. Definitlely not good for the fish, especially as the PH would yo-yo by doing water changes.
By experimention, after reading a formula I found on the internet for African cichlids, I've found that by adding 1 TBSP of Epsom salt, 1 TSP of marine salt and 3/4 TSP of baking soda per 5 gallons of water, I can get my GH to about 80 ppm, my KH to about 90ppm and my PH to about 7.2 with no measurable salinity by hydometer. Can you think of any reasons NOT to do this? Everything I've read about fahakas say these would be good parameters for them but obviously thats in a natural state not something re-created in my Dr. Frankenstein Jr. laboratory. I know they can withstand many different parameters AS LONG AS THEY ARE STABLE but with my water quality that isn't possible, so what do you think?

Sounds fine, just monitor the water and make sure that it doesn't rapidly drift after the treatment anyway.

Nick wrote:Sounds fine, just monitor the water and make sure that it doesn't rapidly drift after the treatment anyway.

OK, I KNOW a big PH swing is bad but what about a GH and KH swing? Think that'll affect the fish?

i think any water parameter change can effect a fish but i dont think the GH and KH will effect a fahaka like a PH swing will but i mean if its continues long enough it might cause problems. although if you can stablaize your PH i would think your alkalinity and hardness should follow right along.

Better suggestion for a more stable pH would be to add aragonite sand or crushed coral in a bag to several HOB filters or mix in into your substrate.

Pufferpunk wrote:Better suggestion for a more stable pH would be to add aragonite sand or crushed coral in a bag to several HOB filters or mix in into your substrate.

Isn't crushed coral a slow fix, as in it takes a certain amount of time to percolate through the water to raise the KH and Ph? Isn't the KH dependent on how much crushed coral is used? I currently need to age my water to get the PH to drop from 9.0 to 7.2 at it's current KH. If I added crushed coral to my aging tank wouldn't the buffering of the coral slow or stop my PH drop from the 9.0? My head hurts.

If after 48 hours ph drops to 7.2 thats fine. Its a lot better in the long run for your fish to adapt to the ph than face the possibilty of spikes / using chemicals in the long term!

flash.dan wrote:If after 48 hours ph drops to 7.2 thats fine. Its a lot better in the long run for your fish to adapt to the ph than face the possibilty of spikes / using chemicals in the long term!

The drop to 7.2 isn't the problem, that's actually the good part. It comes from my tap at 9.0. The problem is that with no minerals in my water (low KH) it continues to drop until it reaches 6.0, which can happen in a matter of days.

Just to update this for anybody that cares, I tried the aragonite/crushed coral fix but with the time it takes to alter the ph and hardness and the fact it would have to be done in a holding tank also for water changes and it's imprecise nature I gave up on it. I have since gone with the epsom salt / marine salt / baking soda mixture I described in my first post.Be aware, I keep seperate 75 gallon tank for my water change water, so all mixing does NOT take place in the main tank. I've found that I can do the epsom/marine salt at the same rate at every fill of my makeup tank and keep my GH very stable. As for the KH, which directly affect the PH, I test the main tank to determine the PH of that water and then add only enough baking soda to my makeup tank to match that PH. This is due to the fact that my makeup water PH drop is unpredictable, so by monitoring the main tank and varying the amount of baking soda I can have a consistant PH in my main tank and by having a stable GH, it helps maintain the buffering capability.
I use this application to determine what my PH will end up at by changing my KH and adjust accordingly.
http://www.dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/C ... hange=0.90

Wouldn't using a cichlid buffer mineral tonic be better tan an epsom/marine salt mix? More of the stuff you want, less of what you don't?

Nick wrote:Wouldn't using a cichlid buffer mineral tonic be better tan an epsom/marine salt mix? More of the stuff you want, less of what you don't?

It's essentially a home-made version of the same thing but at a much lower price. I did a LOT of research on this before I decided to try it. Here's a really good description of it. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
I did several days of 5 gallon bucket testing to fit the formula to my specific requirements. My formula ends up being 1 TBSP of Epsom salt, 1 TSP of Instant Ocean Marine Salt and 3/4 TSP of Baking Soda to attain a GH of app. 80-90 ppm, a KH of app 90 ppm and a pH of 7.2, which stays totally stable, even with a tank full of driftwood, for the week I wait between water changes.
Immediately after the 75 gallon water change in the 180, I re-fill the 75 gallon tank with tap water, add Prime and let it age with several pieces of extra driftwood to get my pH lower than my tap waters initial 9.0. Then about 12 hours before doing a water change I add the Epsom and Instant Ocean salts. I then do my pH test on the 180 and adjust the 75 to the same pH using the baking soda.
WHile I'm still in the early stages of doing this (3 water changes so far) it seems to be working well, my fahaka is eating well, showing very good coloration for a juvenile and is actively cruising and hunting. I will update this occasionally and post if there are any side effects or problems.

sounds like your water locally isnt great. Mine comes out about 6-6.4 after 24 hours to let chlorine desolve.

If i were you i would think about a RO system hopefully then you can gauentee the ph wont change over time. RO man do some good small system. Let me know how you get on

Could you could make home made cichlid buffer with just baking soda, calcium carbonate powder, and epsom salt, save even more money?

Nick wrote:Could you could make home made cichlid buffer with just baking soda, calcium carbonate powder, and epsom salt, save even more money?

Yes but I haven't been able to find calcium chloride as easily as the marine salt. I have a friend that owns a pet store that sells salt water fish and he gives me the Instant Ocean salt, so that parts covered.

flash.dan wrote:sounds like your water locally isnt great. Mine comes out about 6-6.4 after 24 hours to let chlorine desolve.

If i were you i would think about a RO system hopefully then you can gauentee the ph wont change over time. RO man do some good small system. Let me know how you get on

Yeah, my local water is terrible. I'm assuming being in the UK you probably have naturally hard water, which I envy. Even when I brew my own beer, I have to add gypsum and Burton salts to get my water hard enough to make a good bitter.
RO won't even seperate out the compound (Potassium hydroxide) that is used to spike our pH. Our local water supply is so soft they have to raise the pH with chemicals so it won't dissolve the older water pipes in our town water distribution system.

If you have winters there, calcium chloride is used to melt ice. I have a 5g bucket of it here for about $10. At 1 tbsp/day, it's gonna last me forever!