The Puffer Forum

Hello,

I have a Valentini Puffer in a 65 gallon tank with live rock, 4 other fish (2 clown, one 6 lined wrasse, and one blenny) and a brittle star. I set the tank up in June 2003, got the star fish July 24 and the clown fish, Nemo and Nemette, on August 16, 2003. I've had quite a few fish come and go since then including a Valentini Puffer, Tristen, who got big teeth and died after a couple of years. I loved that fish and got another puffer, Tessa -- definately a female type personality. I started feeding frozen shrimp to try to keep her teeth trimmed. Just last week she was checking out the seaweed I'd offered on the new seaweed floating clips and seemed healthy and happy. This past weekend she started sitting on the ground and today she was swimming around with her ventral skin sticking down like a fin. When I fed the fish, she swam around a bit but didn't go for the food. She responds to my looking in at her and will swim up from the ground but she won't eat. She swims around oblivious that the food is near her. I'm worried that I'm going to lose her now...

More about the tank -- I have a perpetual problem of high nitrates, low pH, and low alkalinity. The substrate is not sand but coarser stuff. I have a 15 gallon sump with a protein skimmer in it. After some time of not doing regular water changes several years ago, I realized my water chemistry was really bad and started working on improving the water chemistry by doing a bunch of small water changes. I got the nitrates down but didn't fix the pH and alkalinity and it isn't very forgiving, i.e. with the holidays I didn't do the frequent water changes and the nitrates are back up. Now I have a problem of red algae as well as other algae growing on the glass quickly. I also have string algae? Looks like cob webs on the rocks when I turn off the pumps for water changes.

These last two weeks I've been trying to reduce the nitrates with frequent water changes again and have been adding Seachem's buffer to adjust the pH. The pH has gone up from an average of 7.8 to 8 (I know that is bad low but I've never been able to keep it at 8.3). I also started trying a new thing, AZ-NO3 to reduce nitrates. It calls for 2 drops on day 1, 4 drops on day 2, 8 drops on day 3, 16 drops on day 4, 32 drops on day 5 and 64 drops on day 6. I've used one drop, waited a day, one drop waited a day, 2 drops a for two days then 4 drops for two days, waited a day then 8 drops for two days.

I have an RO/DI unit that I use to make water for adding to the tank and for making water for water changes. I use Tropic Marin salt and feed frozen food cubes -- one per night a little at a time so they have time to eat it. I worry that I feed too much but Nemette hits the fork as I put the food in and the fish act like they are starving. Everybody looks healthy and happy but now my poor Tessa is acting like she's not well. If anyone has any ideas on how I can help her, I'd appreciate it.

You just do not have enough fish in there to cause a nitrate problem, so let's look at some other things. 1st, I would stop using the nitrate-removing chemicals. This may be the cause of her not feeling well. It would help to know all your parameters--you don't mention how high the nitrates really are. How large WC are you actually doing, how often? How much LR is in there? What kind of skimmer?

Are you defrosting the food cubes & draining off the water? If not, then there is your reason for the high nitrates & probably the cyano/algae problems too. Try to blow/scrape off as much of this algae as you can & suck it up during WC.

All you are feeding your puffer is frozen foods? What are you doing to prevent this one from dying from overgrown teeth?

You need to get some cheato into that sump, for a refugeum. Personally, I don't think a 15g sump (probably not filled) is nearly large enough. It shoud considt of at least 1/3 the size of your main tank. You could plumb in another tank with an overflow & use it as a seperate fuge, that's what I have on my 90g. Or at least try & use a large, HOB filter & put cheato in there. That will help a little with your nitrates.

I'll also add that a pH of 7.8 should be fine as long as it's not fluctuating. Generally a stable pH is much more important than a specific value.

Thank you for your responses. I'm very happy that Tessa is still alive but she is still not acting okay. She sits on the bottom of the tank when I can see her. The rest of the fish all look great and she even looks good. It is just her behavior that makes me worry.

I did stop the nitrate-removing product because I thought it might be the problem. The water changes I'm doing are around 6 gallons each. I have not been rinsing the frozen food but started doing that yesterday when I read your response. Tessa doesn't look like she has overgrown teeth problems like my previous puffer did. What I"m doing to try to prevent that is to feed frozen shrimp. I've also seen her picking on my hermit crabs. A couple times, I put some peppermint shrimp in the tank that I don't think are there any more either. I put them in there for her.

I can't remember the type of protein skimmer and won't look in my file now because of time but it is a venturi skimmer with a pump that pushes water thru it that makes bubbles and another pump that pushes the bubbles to the collection cup at the top.

Not sure how to say how much live rock I have in the tank. I'd guess that it displaces about a quarter of the water in the tank. At least.

I have the tank in a stand that doesn't have room underneath for much more than the sump I have. Seems like there are compartmented refugeums being made now that may fit in the space I have. I've been thinking about getting one but need to do the research.

I tested my water tonight and the nitrates are at 25ppm, alkalinity at 8.3dKH, calcium at 380mg/L and PO4 at 0.25mg/L.

The pH has not been fluctuating but I have been adding the buffer with my water changes to try to get it right.

Gail

So you have crushed coral substrate? That might be the problem with your nitrates. The large gaps trap a lot of detritus and rotting material.

Is frozen shrimp all you are feeding? A varied diet is better so that she will not develop any nutrient deficiencies.

Check out the feeding articles in our Library. You have to clean the CC substrate weekly, just like gravel.

I feed Ocean Nutrition's frozen fish Formula Foods. I used to buy three different kinds but then found the variety pack which I feed now. I started feeding the shrimp after I lost Tristen (my first puffer) and learned about the teeth problem. I don't feed the shrimp every day but just a little every 3 days or so. Is there something you guys feed that is better than the frozen stuff?

How do you clean the CC substrate?

Thank you again for your responses and help.

I haven't seen Tessa yet this evening so I am worried...

Gail

How do you do water changes? You use the gravel vac at the end and syphon the gook out just like gravel.

Allrightythen, I just got a Marineland GravelVacuum Siphon-Kleen that I can try. I had another old vacuum thingy for a fresh water tank I had years ago that worked with an air pump but it sucked out stuff into a filter bag and this new vacuum thing siphons water out of the tank. So sounds like my new thing is what I need. I haven't used it yet because I didn't want to stress out Tessa.

Do check out the feeding articles in the library. Has great ideas on what to feed your puffer.

Any chance of a pic of Tessa? I dont really know what you mean by ventral skin sticking down?

Possibly she might have food caught in her, does she seem to be getting fatter?

like a blockage? ...as in she may be going toxic?

Okay there is a picture of Tessa in the User Gallery where I put a Baygl album. I put a picture of Tessa with her ventral skin sticking down like a fin, a picture of her teeth, a picture of the whole tank and two pictures of her clown fish tank mates. I took the pics tonight and if I can I will add pictures of her sitting on the bottom of the tank which is what is worrying me.

Gail

Pretty puffer! Her teeth are starting to get a little lenghthy though.
Her skin is pretty long though. Normally it sticks out a bit but that's kind of a lot IMO. No clue what could cause it, is she eating? Is it possible she has IP?

IP?? I'm trying to think of what that is the acronym for.

Haven't seen her eat. When I add food to the tank, she swims around like she's in feeding mode but the food goes right past her.

Normally her belly is kind-of rounded square and somewhat flat on the bottom. Just like in the bonnie3188 picture. This past week, she has occasionally made the skin along her belly stick out with a ridge down the middle like in the picture but then it goes back flat and normal.

I have been out all day and when I got home, didn't see her in the tank. I just checked again and she was sitting on the bottom but when I looked in the tank she swam up a bit and circled around then eventually settled back down. Then she slowly scooted behind a rock. Often, when I'm kneeling in front of the tank to do water changes, I'll look up because something caught my eye and it is Tessa who has swam down to look at me. So, she hasn't been "shy" in the past. This is going to sound crazy but maybe something happened that scared her. Could that be?? With the algae issues I've had, I have been cleaning the glass a lot -- maybe I accidentally knocked her with the scraper or something like that.

Gail