The Puffer Forum

Hi All,

I am planning on setting up my first brackish tank. The tank is a 20G high. I am planning to do the following and need some input/review if this is OK. I do not have anything but the tank, yet, so I can easily switch plans...

Set up: I was going to buy Aragonite. Is this the recommended substrate, or would crushed coral be better? For a heater, I was planning on a 100W Jager heater. Are 2*50W better, or a single 100W? Do I need to watch out for anything, because there is salt in the water, or would any heater work? Is there any recommended brand of salt, or would any marine salt be OK?

Cycling: I was planning on getting biospira to cycle the tank. The store keeps them at 1.004, so I would like to cycle the tank at the same level.
My question is: marine or fresh water bs? Or both? Also, since I want to make sure that it is working, I was thinking of challenging it with Ammonia before adding fish... is this a good way, or should I skip it?

Stocking: I was planning on one Figure 8 puffer. And I would also like Bumble Bee Gobies. How many could I get? I was hoping maybe 4?

Decoration: What is a good way to decorate in a brackish tank? I have planted fresh water tanks, but since there is salt, plants are out of question, I guess? Maybe slate, caves, other decorations? Fake plants?

Filtration: what would you recommend for this set up? Canister? HOB? I learned that Biowheels are not good, because the salt built-up can slow them down or make them stop? Is this correct?

Bringing them home: Should I trust the store that they are kept at 1.004? Somehow I would like to ask a sample of their water to match it up at home, but I do not want to appear to be the smart buttocks coming in... any idea how I could go about this politically correct?

Keeping them: what is the recommended pH and temperature? My tap has pH of 7.5, so I guess with salt I will go up quite a bit... For food: what should be their main food? I have all sorts of frozen food for my dwarf puffers here (blood worms, glass worms, brine shrimp, ...) and I also have ramshorn snails, that should I run out, the local Petsmart always gives me, whenever I come by. They seem happy to clear out their tanks...Is there anything else I should be getting for them?

Thank you all for your help!

Freshwater Bio-Spira works up to 1.012, so you'll be ok. Also, re the testing of the water, if it's a half decent lfs, they'll understand your concern. Failing that, they'll be bagging the fish up with tank water, so you could, at a pinch, test it from the bag, and if it is significantly different, slowly acclimatise the fish in a seperate container...make sure you've got one handy.
I doubt, if they say it's 1.004, it'll be too far off...there's no point saying it if it's not, cos people's fish'll die more, and they'll have to do more refunds etc.
One F8 will be ok with two BBGs, I reckon.
Foodwise, sack the brine shrimp...they're the equivalent of chips...moreish, but not much nutrition. Save them for an occasional treat. Bloodworms and snails are great, crickets, cockles, clams, crab legs, mysis shrimp.....have a good look in your lfs freezer.
If you buy human food, make sure it's untreated and raw, and freeze for 48 hours to kill bugs.
Good luck...I love F8s.
Pami.
Oooh...forgot...80 - 82 degrees, the pH will go up with the aragonite and salt, best is around 8.

Too bad you already have the tank. In my experience my puffs seem healthier in either normal tanks (meaning not long or high) or in long tanks because they have more horizontal swimming space. The more horizontal space seems to be the best for any puffs I have or have had. But that can be opinionated.

If you're using a hydrometer, definately test their wate with your hydrometer--who cares what they think...

I always use a slow drip acclimitization (sp?) on all my fish.

Thank you all for the input. I was going to buy an instant ocean hydrometer (it is the only one I can find that goes down to 1.000), and test their water with the one I buy, so I know it will be consistent.

The tank is not extra tall, it is 24" long. Is this going to be a problem? I bought this tank, because I had an extra hood/light fixture sitting around here... but I can buy another tank and fixture I guess... (my husband thinks I am crazy...but after all it was him who bought me my first tank...so it is his "fault" that now I am addicted ).

I think your tank size is fine for what you're planning...I've bought to fit existing hoods/lights I have, too, so you're not alone.

Eric

Could someone tell me how to do a "slow drip" aclimatization (sp?)? When I bring home new fish, I usually put them into a bucket with the water from the bag, and add tank water bit by bit until it gets too full, then take out some of the water from the bucket and continue to add tank water. Then I cup/net the fish out of the bucket and put it into the tank in an attempt not to get any/too much water from the bag into my tank (I am paranoid that it might be "contaminated" from the store).

What you are doing is fine. Like PP though, I prefer to do a low drip to spread the acclimitization over a longer period. I used to use a section of airline tubing folded over and crimped with a clam or rubber band, restricting water flow to a few drops per second. I now use an old gang valve instead as it is much easier to adjust the flow this way.

Oh, and throwing out LFS water rather than adding it to your tank is a very smart idea.

Ok, thank you... so I will be trying to do a slow drip with tank water when I bring them home...
Now I have a question that might sound silly, but can a fish be shocked if it is put into much cleaner water than it is used to? I am asking because, should I test the water from the store and it has ammonia, nitrites or high nitrates, would it shock my fish to go into cleaner water? I somehow think I should not "foul" my tank just to match it 100%, right? I guess my main focus should be on pH, sg, and temperature? I am still pretty new to keeping fish, and so far have only 8 months of experience with fresh water... so excuse my question, please...

You are asing some excellent questions!

The answer is yes and the condition is referred to as Old Tank Syndrom. If you find that the water parameters in the LFS vary greatly from what you have at home, then a slow-drip process is very important.

Thank you again... I went to the store again yesterday and what puzzles me is that on the tank they wrote "salt, 1.004" and "pH=7.4". The store is not too far from me, so the water should not be that different. My tap already has 7.5! So I guess this is an indication of Old Tank Syndrome, if I understand it correctly? I will make sure when I bring them home I take it slowly on them...
It will still be a while before I can set the tank up, because we are getting our floors redone, and I want to wait until this is done, so I do not have to move the tank around (only my three existing ones). On a good note, though, my husband told me I could use one room in the house as a "fish tank" room .
One question that still remains open is the filtration. Does anyone have a recommendation for my planned set up?

You may well find that low-density BW as is used for F-8s simply does not buffer that much. Do you know the KH of your tap water? Long-term stability of KH in FW and light BW is almost entirely a function of water changes, and why so many of us suggest large-scale water changes for puffers. Additional buffering is provided by calcareous substrates such as aragonite, which is the main reason that I use this for BW tanks.

I do not use biowhells at all in part because they spray microdrops, meaning that there is salt residue spread around. A conditioned biowheel commonly rotates more slowly than a new one - that is a refection of increase weight/mass, and is trivial. So long as it turns and does not stop, the essential oxygenation of the biofilm is occuring.

My personal choice for light BW is RFUG biofiltration using aragonite. The substrate flow provides better buffering, and the bioflter size is huge and stable. But I freely admit that few folks use such techniques. For details, see:

http://www.aquasource.org/CMS/modules.p ... =17&page=1

My mechanical filtration is always separated from the biofiltration such that it can be frequently cleaned by tap water rinses. I use largely internal canisters for this, many folks use HOBs to the same end. Ease of access is key to actually keeping up with frequently rinsed filters for me - if it is easy, I'm likely to do the work - if it is harder, I am less likely to do so (external canisters).

Normal biofiltration eats KH, so pH in established tanks is rarely at the level of tap water. Unless massive large scale partials are done frequently, I would never be shocked at heavily stocked displays having lower KH (and thus lower pH) that the tap would show after aging. Is your tap water pH reading from freshly drawn water, or aged or aerated water? The two readings are commonly different.

My tap water shows no (measurable) difference in aged or freshly drawn water and is at 7.5. My kH is around 7. I was hoping that this is high enough to buffer in between water changes when aragonite is used. Should I maybe add crushed coral to the filter also?
As for water changes I do 50% weekly on all my other tanks and pH and kH is stable... would this be sufficient? Or twice weekly?
The fish store seems a little "shady" to me... that is why I question them so much... but it is the only one that has some puffers that I have found so far.
I will look into the RFUG filter that you described and see if I can do it... thank you for the link. I will try to find a good brand HOB and use two of them, and maybe an internal canister, if it seems to difficult for me to set up this RFUG.
I am pretty new to keeping fish, so my confidence is pretty low in trying new things. I made so many mistakes on my first fresh water tank, that it is nearly a miracle all my fish survived... I do not want to repeat it with my first brackish tank...

Edit: I looked at the RFUG filtration and it does not seem to hard (I hope). How many gph should the powerhead have that I need for a 20G set up? Marineland sells them in 145, 170 and 300 gph...Also, do you use them at full speed?

Consider yourself lucky with your stable-from-the-tap water. Aging shifts up to +/- >0.5 pH units are commmon.

Aragonite is more soluble than crushed coral, that is why it is preferred - plus it is available in more shades and particle sizes.

Fifty percent weekly partials should be sufficient, but that will depend on the KH of the tap+ marine mix.

I use only the Penguin powerheads with the Penguin reverse flow kits which match them. Those kits align with both the Penguin 660 and Penguin 1140 models. I use one 1140 RFUG in a 20 gallon tank. I have run 20-long tanks with 2 each 660 powerheads, but I like the 1140 model better (a perfect fit in the RF elbow without using the included adapter). The Penguin models are not adjustable and always operate at full speed.

HTH

Thank you again for the information. Now one more question, and I will stop bugging you (for now ): where should my kH with salt added ideally be?