The Puffer Forum

Do not add anything without hearing from RTR 1st!

Pufferpunk wrote:Do not add anything without hearing from RTR 1st!

Please, no need to shout, I was asking questions. I'm not a bozo.

I WASN'T SHOUTING

IS IT STILL SHOUTING IF YOU USE ALL CAPS WITHOUT AN EXCLAMATION POINT?
Now I'm just talking, but with urgency!
lol

Do not ever add baking soda directly to a tank. It dissolves very rapidly and can osmotically shock your fish. It is a common cause of fish stress or death - generally called pH shock, but it is not that, it is osmotic shock. You will have to play with your own water to verify amounts and responses,then pre-dissolve it before adding to the tank slowly if it is to change the KH any significant amount.

You want KH to be sufficient to not lose much KH between water changes. This is an argument for smaller more frequent water partials. Unless you operate pre-filtered RFUG filtration, static substrates do not react very quickly. Water changes can shift the osmolarity of the water too quickly if the replacement water is significantly different from the tank water. Substrates such as aragonite react best in dedicated external filters. The easiest technique is to use mesh bags in the external filter and remove, rinse well, then dry for later reuse (biofilms on the substrate can enhace or slow solution so are best avoided). a double set of bags is generally sufficient. With that reservoir of soluble material subject to water flow, your tank should be sufficiently stable that you can do normal, significant percentage changes routinely with the make-up water matching the tank water osmototically.

BTW, Arm and Hammer brand is available in most grocery stores, and is safer and better standardized than aquarium packaging, plus it is cheap.

Does any of that track for you?

Rest assured I would never add something directly to the tank like that, of course.
I'll do some calculations and make sure my exchange water correlates.
I actually already have arm and hammer baking soda.

I will post results/progress.

Thanks!

Will this help?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#4
http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Pufferpunk wrote:Will this help?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php#4
http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

Woohoo!!
Thanks PP Better than google!

LOL! I could not live w/o Google, but it can be frustrating.

what did we do before google LOL

So far so good, added 3/4 tsp with the water change, slowly added it.
Before: 6.4 ph, 0° kh
After dose: 6.8 ph, 1° kh, has maintained after 24 hours
My CO2 reader says it will read inaccurately if KH is below 5°
So that is my goal, will shoot for 2° weekly, but that will depend on the pH readings, I don't want them to jump too high too quickly.
Again thank you

Fish do not read external pH. It is not the pH, it is the osmolarity which is important to them - osmotic shock can be fatal. You do want to avoid changing the osmolarity or TDS (total dissolved solids) too quickly.

To hobbyists, pH is an easily read test which provides hints as to the stability of the KH in the tank. If it is falling too quickly it may indicate that the tank is not sufficiently stable for normal nitrification. The FW nitrification bacteria functionless well when the pH drops below a pH of ~6.5, and survive poorly below ~pH 6.

RTR wrote:Fish do not read external pH. It is not the pH, it is the osmolarity which is important to them - osmotic shock can be fatal. You do want to avoid changing the osmolarity or TDS (total dissolved solids) too quickly.

To hobbyists, pH is an easily read test which provides hints as to the stability of the KH in the tank. If it is falling too quickly it may indicate that the tank is not sufficiently stable for normal nitrification. The FW nitrification bacteria functionless well when the pH drops below a pH of ~6.5, and survive poorly below ~pH 6.

I remember you saying this before to someone, very good information to have, and it explains the ridiculously long time it took to establish a new tank for me with this crazy soft acidic water.

sevenyearnight wrote:So far so good, added 3/4 tsp with the water change, slowly added it.
Before: 6.4 ph, 0° kh
After dose: 6.8 ph, 1° kh, has maintained after 24 hours
My CO2 reader says it will read inaccurately if KH is below 5°
So that is my goal, will shoot for 2° weekly, but that will depend on the pH readings, I don't want them to jump too high too quickly.
Again thank you

That good that something works raising your tanks ph .

Raising the pH does not necessarily improve the tank. For nitrification to be stable and secure, the KH must be raised, not just the pH. The pH alone, or under the influence of commercial non-carbonate buffers does nothing positive for the water, nitrification bacteria, or fish at all.

That is the point that many to most hobbyists do not see or understand. KH or alkalinity is the primary buffer of FW on this planet, and the primary one for brackish and marine waters. Due to this it is also what water-dwelling creatures' physiology "expect" and on which they rely.

Corrcting pH without correcting KH is not only unproductive, it can be actively harmful, because the non-carbonate buffers are too unstabele in water. This leads to marked to huge increases in TDS (or osmolarity), without any biological benefit. Few hobbyist can or do read osmolarity, which can have major physiologic impact on the fish and even the bacteria on which many of our tanks rely.

HTH