The Puffer Forum

10:30 pm
Tap: 6.8 ph
Pur: 6.8 ph
So it's not dropping all that low at all, so I added the plant substrate to the test water, I'll test again in the morning.

OK, I am very late to the party and have no idea what is going on, so you will need to fill me in. What I have read is terribly confusing to me.

First comment- There is no such thing as a "good buffer". A commercial buffer is a device to provide money to manufacturers and screw up your tank chemistry. The one and only valid FW buffer is carbonate/bicarbonate, period.

1. What is your tap water pH fresh from the tap?

2. What is your tap water pH after aging 24 hours?

3. What is your tap water KH?

4. What is your tank KH?

5. What percentage of the tank volume do you change? And at what interval do you change ?

6. Are you adding supplements for the plants?

7. Detail the supplements you are adding, including CO2 if added. Brands, doses, etc.

That will give most of the info we need to figure out what is the problem with the tank.

• Straight from tap - 7.2 pH
• After 24 hours - 6.8 pH
• Tap water with plant substrate after 12 hours - 6.6 pH
• Tap with plant substrate, 1 drop of Flourish and Flourish Excel - 6.0
• I will be purchasing additional tests as soon as I have the funds to do so, but at the moment, I don't have a KH test. I wish someone would make a planted tank master kit! lol However, according to my Red Sea alkalinity test (which I feel is kind of rubbish with it's vague color chart), my alkalinity for my tap and tank water is very low, probably 0.
• My usual water change schedule was 20% 2 - 3 times a week. At the moment since I over fertilized, I am changing about 15% or more each morning.
• I only use Seachem. I have tabs in the substrate, but I used much less than what was recommended since I have low-moderate light (2.3 watts per gallon 6500k). I was adding Flourish until about a week ago, I feel as though I added too much too soon. I was also adding Flourish Excel, which I have stopped adding for now. My C02 levels were reading high (My monitor only has +, , and -, no numbers I'm sorry) but they have been in the for a few days now.
• My substrate is mostly play sand, with Seachem Flourite Substrate and Caribisea Floramax. They were all well rinsed.
• Atm, I have 2 fish, a 3-3.5" L052 Pleco, and a 3.5" or so female Blue Acara. The bichir is in the hospital tank.

So my pH is >6.4 consistently in my tank.
Is this really a harmful thing?
If it is, Seachem Neutral Regulator says it "..adjusts pH to neutral (pH 7.0) from either a low or high pH and maintains it there. It softens water by precipitating calcium and magnesium..."
Is this any different than adding bicarbonate?
Is this product mainly bicarbonate?

Hey Seachem does make a liqiud form too but might be harder to find that in your lfs but dont hurt looking. The cool thing about this product, other then it buffers the ph to 7.0 but it also can be used as a complete water conditioner. I have used it before and even used it during WC's too.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... lator.html

RTR is the chemistry expert here.

My guess is that I need to pick up the water changes. Since the test water pH rose when fertilizer was added, I suppose I still have too much fertilizer build up in the water column if my pH is so much lower than my tap, and the hair algae started growing.
I'm curious as to why 6.0 -6.4 pH is considered too low when it seems as though many south american fish are caught in acidic waters.

DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT add Neutral Regulator to your tank. Commercial buffers are perhaps the best way I know of to destroy your tank's normal chemistry. Stores love them, once hobbyist start down that slippery slope, they will be spending a fortune in the stores and never get their tank chemistry back to normal.

Without GH and KH test kits it is impossible to say what is happening in your tank or what needs to be done. There is nothing inherently wrong about a pH of 6.4, but if does indicate potentially unstable pH, which is a moderate to high risk situation fro your nitrification bacteria. Without better tests you are groping in the dark.

Water partials are rarely bad for a tank, and smaller more frequent partial are generally safer provided that the total volume actually changed per week is maintained.

We are nor able to get the popper calculations posted in the library at this time, but you can see a slightly outdated version at

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article54.html

HTH

What about adding CC to the filter?

I'm going to steep some tea then moped over to the store to get a KH GH test. Will post results soon.

My tap water KH seems to be at 0 ppm, <12.5 ppm at the most.
Number of drops to change the color to yellow is 1, it's not even blue for a moment.
To verify the test is working, I tested the marine tank and it's at 170 ppm
My planted tank water is also at 0 ppm, or <12.5 ppm, of course, since my water source is the tap water.
Ok, so now what do I do? if I understand correctly, I need kh in order to maintain a steady pH, so how do I raise the kh of my water?
Do I also understand correctly that I would want a KH of 50 - 100 ppm?
Or do I even need to raise the KH at all?

KH is required for the nitrification process. Without it in measurable quantities, your tank will never be stable- and the pH shifts will worsen as the fish grow and produce/release more ammonia.

You should contact your water utility to ask their results for carbonates-bicarbonates (KH). Also ask what buffer they are using to stabilize the water in the pipe network. they are generally perhaps the most responsive public servants in the whole public sector.

Then we will be able to suggest long-term solutions for you. Commercial buffers would be a disaaster - constant y0-yo effect with increasing TDS unreadable other than by a TDS probe.

PP- CC in dedicated externals is a real possibility, Aragonite would be better due to better solubility. Aragonite substrate would also be desirable. The most likely handling will likely be baking soda pre-mixing to get the KH up paired with some reservoir in the substrate or in external filters or both. But we need to see what is actually in the water from the tap first. That is really soft acid water.

Ok, I just got off the phone with the water system, he said our KH is between 8-10 ppm, and that they use no buffers, that it's surface water, it's just how our water naturally is.
I read a little on baking soda and calcium carbonate, some suggestions would be appreciated as I would like to get the best balance possible. Dose rate, frequency, initial dose so on.
Thank you

Change your substrate to aragonite--problem solved.

Pufferpunk wrote:Change your substrate to aragonite--problem solved.

I cannot change my substrate. I can add some, I'd also like the water going into the tank to be a close as possible to the water already in it.
That just seems awfully drastic.

I found some info on a planted tank article, said 1 tsp of baking soda will increase the KH by 4° for 13 gallons. My tank has about 68 gallons of water, so if I'm doing my math right, adding 1 tsp approximately of baking soda will increase my tank's kh by 1°, which should be a safe degree to change at one water change?
I will get some (need to know an amount) aragonite to add to my tank, but I would like to know how quickly/slowly to safely and effectively raise the KH.