The Puffer Forum

I.Puff.Too wrote:Here is a list of some other general symptoms of nematode infections (besides the above already mentioned symptoms):
• Body Hemorrhaging
• Lumps or nodules on outer body (epidermis)
• Bloated abdomen (the fish may continue to eat or show otherwise normal behavior)
• Cysts, Inflammation, or Granulomas


Just because it appears to be under the skin doesn't mean it is. Lumps on the outer body are symptoms of internal nematodes.

I'd try the IP meds. Soak the food, and treat the tank as well. What do you have to lose if you do? I think you already know what you may lose if you don't at least try...

Source: http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/20 ... -fish.html

Yeah, unfortunately I do know he won't live as long of a life if it isnt somehow killed.
The Lump does move, and that's why I think it is under the skin. However, tank and food treatment is a possibility. However, the Petstore in the area only seems to carry fizzy tablets called ParasiteGaurd by Tetra. Not sure if its safe or not to feed to him?

Thank you guys for all your help! I'm sorry I've been gone for a few days. It's been an extremely busy week.

+1 to bertie's comment.

Somatic nematodes are not necessarily an immefiate death sentence. They are certainly not harmless, but the long-term effects depend upon the care given to the fish and the number of worms which are present and the care given to the fish. I have had puffers w/somatic nematode(s) live over 10 years.

Unfortunately, the medication-soaked foods are only for gut/intestinal parasites. The medications are not absorbed into the fish's body, so they will have no effect on somatic nematodes.

The serious problem with killing the worm while under the fish's skin is it dies, & rots there, killing the puffer anyway. Either remove surgically or leave it be & give the puffer the happiest life possible.

Pufferpunk wrote:The serious problem with killing the worm while under the fish's skin is it dies, & rots there, killing the puffer anyway. Either remove surgically or leave it be & give the puffer the happiest life possible.

Im going to look up any scenarios of that. Wouldnt the puffers body be able to biologically dispose of a foreign bio degradable matter through anti bodies urine and feces? But if not, couldnt you sedate him and cut him out and wrap him and add neosporin?

Yes, surgery has been successfully done for this.

I stick by my words earlier. Sod all that and enjoy a relatively long life compared to his wild cousins.

Pufferpunk wrote:Meds will not eradicate a nematode under the skin. It MUST be surgically removed.

I'm guessing I may be posting too late but I had the exact same situation as the OP with one of my GSPs. Large bump under skin, kept moving around. I made a post about it here last August (Puffer with Swollen Chin) though at the time I did not realize the bump was moving. I tried lots of different anti-parasite meds, none of them had any effect on the bump. Eventually I decided to ignore it since the puffer seemed very healthy, bright color, active, ate well, despite the moving lump. About a month ago, however, things took a serious turn for the worse. The puffer turned very dark, very lethargic, barely moved at all, though it still ate a little. A few times I thought it was actually dead but it struggled on this way for about 2 weeks. I actually considered slitting the puffer near the bump to pull the worm out but in the end couldn't bring myself to do it. In hindsight I wish I had. One morning I woke up to find my puffer truly dead with part of the worm sticking out of its side.

It's true that the puffer did seem to be fine for many months with this worm and I do not know what triggered it's health decline, but if you want to give your puffer a chance to live much longer than a year or so, and not die what seemed to be a very difficult death, I'd risk the surgery.

wetmartini wrote:

Pufferpunk wrote:Meds will not eradicate a nematode under the skin. It MUST be surgically removed.

I'm guessing I may be posting too late but I had the exact same situation as the OP with one of my GSPs. Large bump under skin, kept moving around. I made a post about it here last August (Puffer with Swollen Chin) though at the time I did not realize the bump was moving. I tried lots of different anti-parasite meds, none of them had any effect on the bump. Eventually I decided to ignore it since the puffer seemed very healthy, bright color, active, ate well, despite the moving lump. About a month ago, however, things took a serious turn for the worse. The puffer turned very dark, very lethargic, barely moved at all, though it still ate a little. A few times I thought it was actually dead but it struggled on this way for about 2 weeks. I actually considered slitting the puffer near the bump to pull the worm out but in the end couldn't bring myself to do it. In hindsight I wish I had. One morning I woke up to find my puffer truly dead with part of the worm sticking out of its side.

It's true that the puffer did seem to be fine for many months with this worm and I do not know what triggered it's health decline, but if you want to give your puffer a chance to live much longer than a year or so, and not die what seemed to be a very difficult death, I'd risk the surgery.

I'm sorry to hear that you had this experience... I never like hearing about these little guys dying They have so much personality!
Your post isnt late, and I thank you for the reply. I havent been on this site in a few weeks with just my busy life and such. My puffer is still swimming around happily, begging for food and acting his normal self with his usual black belly. Nothing has really changed much with him, and he's doing pretty great since I've learned a few things from this site(mainly, water changes). Every day I still sit there and look at him and that bump, but he seems to be doing really great(well, as good as he can be) with it. His worm has been seeming to stay more towards his underbelly now instead of the top of his head/back...it remains there most of the time.
Both of my tanks have been doing really good though and are staying clean and happy. My separate small ghost shrimp tank is another matter though-they keep getting stuck up in the filter!

This whole topic reminds me of those chest dwelling monsters from the Alien movies. They grow until they burst out the hosts chest thus killing the host.

sgtmyers88 wrote:This whole topic reminds me of those chest dwelling monsters from the Alien movies. They grow until they burst out the hosts chest thus killing the host.

You're right! Except this situation the 'monster' seems to be growing a lot slower, versus just a few hours.... I hate that he's suffering. Stupid worm.

My GSP seemed to be totally happy and healthy for the better part of 9 months with that worm. I'd just be prepared to perform some small surgery on him when you start to notice that he's really under severe distress. The problem is, if his condition has deteriorated greatly because of the worm, it may lower his chances of a successful recovery from surgery.

Liliana wrote:My separate small ghost shrimp tank is another matter though-they keep getting stuck up in the filter!

Put a piece of nylon stocking over the filter intake.

My T. mbu and at least one of my Fahakas had internal (somatic, not intestinal) nematodes. I never saw any loss of health or shortening of their lives from those parasites. But that will depend on the number of parasites the fish picked up in the wild. As with black spot "disease", there may be no real damage from small numbers of these multi-phase parasites until they reach their final host. My Palembang's puffer however may have died from too many somatic nematodes. The death of significant numbers (total biomas) of those worms inside an intermediate host can cause death from toxicity.

It seems paradoxical that a few live somatic nematodes can be endured, but treating and killing the worms can kill the host. That is why surgery is suggested if intervention is required. Too much dead foreign protein is fatally toxic.

Hey guys, got a quick (sorta) question for all of you!
Can these parasites grow too large for the host? I'm not sure if my puffer fish has one worm that's been getting bigger and bigger, or has a couple smaller ones (can they reproduce in the host?)...I believe it's one large one. Which concerns me, because I'm afraid it will soon either die and kill my puffer, or grow too big and push out of the puffers skin, killing it as well. Just another observation...today, my puffer has a lump under his beak on his chin..and also a huge bump on the left side of his tail. The bump on the tail is so large that it almost seems as if the parasite is about to push through his skin. My puffer is still swimming and begging, plus greeting me at the glass, but his whole body is the blackest it's been in a while. Just a few days before this, his stomach had been white for a couple of days straight..which I've never seen either before.

any thoughts?
I just like to know what's going on...