The Puffer Forum

Two needed clarifications:

Sorry, but several posts back you implied that nerites would reproduce in a captive environment. This doe not occur. Nerites are either full marine or migrate from SW to BW or FW, They reproduce only in full marine conditions. They do not reproduce in captivity. They commonly deposit eggs, but those are doomed, they do not hatch or grow.

Also, there is no such thing as a "natural" aquarium, although some set-ups are labeled with some such fallacy. Keeping fish in glass or plastic boxes is not natural. Even very large and complex multi-tank systems cannot and do not replicate the wild. A single small tank is noy and never will be a valid slice of nature. This is not a bad thing. Properly set and handled handled, a fish tank, especially a tank for a singleton F-8 puffer, should give a lifespan many times longer that the fish's wild cousins. We are not replicating the fish's natural environment, we are providing an artificial set-up which will provide (with proper upkeep) a stable and safe environment which will maximize the fish's health and lifespan.

HTH

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/snail/nerite.php
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/to ... te-snails/ - post #5

While you're right that one can't fully replicate natural, you're wrong that it's not something to strive for - a complex ecology is both more interesting and healthier than a sterile one with only a single live species.

Their is no implication that you shouldnt strive for it. But that its impossible to replicate it. is all. Puffers may be kept alone but not lonely. You wont find a school of f8 in the wild, or a czar f8 ruling over gobies.

I always found eggs scattered all over the glass, decor, etc but never any baby snails.

Pufferpunk wrote:I always found eggs scattered all over the glass, decor, etc but never any baby snails.

They need sufficient calcium in the water to form a shell - plus I'm sure things eat them.

Yael wrote: While you're right that one can't fully replicate natural, you're wrong that it's not something to strive for - a complex ecology is both more interesting and healthier than a sterile one with only a single live species.

Strive for? Yes. Succeed at? No. I think you missed RTR's point.

Pufftastic wrote:

Yael wrote: While you're right that one can't fully replicate natural, you're wrong that it's not something to strive for - a complex ecology is both more interesting and healthier than a sterile one with only a single live species.

Strive for? Yes. Succeed at? No. I think you missed RTR's point.

RTR made it sound like it wasn't even worth trying to provide a complex environment because it was 'impossible'. To me, that's a defeatist attitude. It's also pretty presumptuous to lecture someone with a BA in biology (evolution and population ecology) and a PhD in molecular neurobiology, but then RTR had no way to know that. However, whenever someone lectures rather than discusses it comes off badly.

.... Hes a Mentor of this forum with decades of experience. Hes here to inform. Hes been there, done that. His information is valuable, and if its relevant and new to you, take it. If not, dismiss it. Knowone here will attack you personally, so please dont take it as that. Sigh.

Robert T. Ricketts, a.k.a. RTR

Google it.

It still comes off as a lecture. Unless a lecture is asked for, it's disrespectful. No where did I ask for a lecture on why I can't do what I'm asking questions about. I asked for other brackish water invertebrates that might be able to breed in a tank, not a lecture on keeping a single species tank.

RTR is an old man, almost blind & occasionally quite crotchety.
He is also a scientist, lecturer & publisher of many, many articles. Please check some of them out here: library/author/rtr/

I'm also getting up there in years, retired and quite willing to crotch back - I'm also well published and have given more than my share of lectures and taught many grad and medical students. No one likes to be talked down to and it's worth while remembering that no matter who you are. And never in all my years of teaching did I tell a student that something was impossible just based on my say so.

Well then, you & Robert should have some interesting conversations here. Looking forward to them!

Pufferpunk wrote:Well then, you & Robert should have some interesting conversations here. Looking forward to them!

Yes, I am a crotchety old mam who set his first SW invert tank systems in the i960s when I was getting bored with breeding Cichlids (and kept my first puffers- GSPs - in that era to consume excess snails from my fry grow-out tanks). My first and long-term career was biomedical research and teaching for the DOD first and later for NIH. When I burrned out on low-paying jobs I retired from that to do consulting work so I could retire without starvation.

Single-tank system are never single-species systems. Most semi-closed systems (standard fish or invert tanks) have myriad species involved. None of those are single-species operations. There is not and never has been any closed successful systems. The closest are the little Eco-spheres which can operate 10-15+ years with care, but suffer markedly from small-island effects. Semi-closed system can with care operate longer to indefinitely, but do best as multitank systems to provide refuges for particular sub-system. The last 30 years or so I have played with quite a few of those. They are fun and challenging, but not likely to ever become popular in the hobby. Single-tank "systems" have a high failure rate among hobbyists who tend to lose interest and do not notice slow drifts toward unsustainable conditions - they drift toward and eventually crash. Open or flow-through system are rare due high upkeep costs. They are pretty much limited to public displays.

Entropy is always the enemy. Boredom is always its ally. Insufficient planning is their enabler.

Due to visual difficulties I do currently try to limit most of my responses, and if they are terse, but that is unlikely to change for most routine posts. If I have offended you I am sorry, but my post style is unlikely to change in the future. Longer replies are only done when underlying principles need to be presented. Those do need the expansion, but that itself does turn a lot of folks off. I really cannot help those who want quick-fixes which will not correct their underlying problems.

FWW, YMMV.