The Puffer Forum

I do have to agree w/LGP & PP. Using any med at 1/2 strength is shooting yourself in the foot. Really, really bad idea. Erythromycin (the active ingredient of Maracyn) os safe for puffers and has created few resistant strains, but half doses are the best possible way to generate resistant stains. Terrible advice IMHO, NIMFT, not ever.

Ditto why on earth would you dose Erythromycin for IPs? It will have no effect whatsoever on the agent causing the problems. Again I agree w/PP, treat the problem, not some imaginary blanket or shotgun treatment.

RTR wrote:IK do have to agree w/LGP & PP. Using any med at 1/2 strength is shooting yourself in the foot. Really realy bad idea. Erythromycin (the active ingrdient of maracyn) os safe for pyffers and has created few resistant strains, but half doses are the best possible way to generate resostant stains. Terrible advice IMHO, NIMFT, not ever.

Ditto why on earth would you dose Erythromycin for IPs? It will have no effect whatsoever on the agent causing the problems. Again I agree w/PP, treat the problem, not some imaginary blanket or shotgun treatment.

Rob , only if half doses were used for a prolonged period , actually the strength of the dosage is irrelevant it has more to do with long term exposure and regular exposure , for viruses etc to become immune . I very much doubt this puffer is suffering from just ip's , bacteria will be present in the ips themselves , and as the puffers immune system isn't coping they can ytake a hold and be fatal .
Anyway i think lgp moved this thread , and debate on , and half the posts seem to be missing ...uummm i wonder .

Disease-causing microbes that have become resistant to drug therapy are an increasing public health problem. Tuberculosis, gonorrhea, malaria, and childhood ear infections are just a few of the diseases that have become hard to treat with antibiotic drugs. Part of the problem is that bacteria and other microorganisms that cause infections are remarkably resilient and can develop ways to survive drugs meant to kill or weaken them. This antibiotic resistance is due largely to the increasing use of antibiotics. Smart use of antibiotics is the key to controlling the spread of resistance. It is important to understand that, although they are very useful drugs, antibiotics designed for bacterial infections are not useful for viral infections such as cold, cough, or flu.

Half dosing antibiotic is about the worst thing you can do as far as creating resistant bacteria. Give them a taste, then let the ones that didn't die reproduce unhindered by any additional antibiotics. There is a reason the instructions on the bottle your doctor gives you say to take every pill even if you feel better.

wagner7123 wrote:Disease-causing microbes that have become resistant to drug therapy are an increasing public health problem. Tuberculosis, gonorrhea, malaria, and childhood ear infections are just a few of the diseases that have become hard to treat with antibiotic drugs. Part of the problem is that bacteria and other microorganisms that cause infections are remarkably resilient and can develop ways to survive drugs meant to kill or weaken them. This antibiotic resistance is due largely to the increasing use of antibiotics. Smart use of antibiotics is the key to controlling the spread of resistance. It is important to understand that, although they are very useful drugs, antibiotics designed for bacterial infections are not useful for viral infections such as cold, cough, or flu.

Half dosing antibiotic is about the worst thing you can do as far as creating resistant bacteria. Give them a taste, then let the ones that didn't die reproduce unhindered by any additional antibiotics. There is a reason the instructions on the bottle your doctor gives you say to take every pill even if you feel better.

Simply put there hasn't really been enough pharmacokinetics anaylsis if hardly any on ornamental fish let alone individual species .
Yes of course with humans you follow the label on the bottle and do it exactly as it says . But were not talking about humans , were talking about fish . The worse thing you can actually do with antibiotics is make them ' available over the counter ' , it just encourages people to use them to often and this is what causes bacteria etc to eventually become immune .
As for my advice on half dosage , that is because until full pharmacokinetics anaylysis has been carried out extensively on each individual fish species ( which won't happen in our life time ) , no one knows for sure how to determine the optimum dosage (example is the stated dose really a full dose for that individual fish species and at that point in its lifetime and with the unknown bacteria it contains ??? or is it too much or not enough ???? ), no one knows .
One short treatment (im talking 24 hours maximum ) won't harm the fish as any surviving pathogens , bacteria etc won't be exposed long enough . But yes if you were to treat lets say a human ( where conclusive PKA has been carried out extensively ) at half dosage for short period more than this time then you would be running a risk .
If one were to treat the fish ' at full dosage 'a figure which in the first place is pretty much plucked from the air . Then damage to the fishes internal organs is a lot higher , So i and others like to err on the side of caution . Which im pleased to say over the years has saved many a wet pets life

The debate in this thread is pointless IMO. Recommended treatments/medication are all based on personal experience and at a certain level of risk. When your pet is sick, U bring it to a Vet. Are U going to question the vet by asking if the med is going to work or is it tested thoroughly enough? U do not give a sick child half a tab of painkiller either rite? i believe when reputable companies release meds they would be tested to a acceptable level to treat specific disease at the recommeded dosage.

scpion wrote:The debate in this thread is pointless IMO. Recommended treatments/medication are all based on personal experience and at a certain level of risk. When your pet is sick, U bring it to a Vet. Are U going to question the vet by asking if the med is going to work or is it tested thoroughly enough? U do not give a sick child half a tab of painkiller either rite? i believe when reputable companies release meds they would be tested to a acceptable level to treat specific disease at the recommeded dosage.

If its pointless then please don't feel you have to contribute .lol
although you do have a valid point , as without PKA is just arguing opinions and inconclusive .
You don't honestly believe 'reputable companies release meds they would be tested to a acceptable level to treat specific disease at the recommeded dosage' . They only make sure they cover there own arses and profit margins .
Pet is open ended . Cats and dogs get much higher priority than ornamental fish . More studies have been carried out and therefore they are much better catered for by the vetinary practises .
Please don't compare a child to a fish !! . PKA on humans is in another league altogether , dosages are bang on . With fish its unknown species to species, so in the first instance you can't determine the correct dosage for that individual fish to begin with . So its impossible to tell if your giving half , full or whatever percentage of the correct dosage that would/should apply to that individual fish.
What you don't want to do is risk overdosing the fish and causing long term internal organ damage and/or death .

Puffer King wrote:.......i'll say what i like thanyou very much .
Just because you don't agree , doesn't mean i won't exercise my right to express my advice .

Sounds familiar?

scpion wrote:

Puffer King wrote:.......i'll say what i like thanyou very much .
Just because you don't agree , doesn't mean i won't exercise my right to express my advice .

Sounds familiar?

your point being ???

My point being exactly what's your point when u said that.

Ok everyone, this has gone on enough. I will not let this thread, that had great potential for learning for all involved, deteriorate in to a verbal sparring match, that is not what this forum is for. Forums are for discussion and I refer you to this posting from Thought Catalog:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/how-to-h ... iscussion/

Note: Nowhere in there does it say anyone has the right to tell someone with another opinion not to speak.