The Puffer Forum

There are plenty of people in America that is jobless but they are not going out a protesting about it. The best way for this, is the 2012 election. Obama has done the country dirty with all his "talk but no action". We all know that Obama is to blame because he is the President (leader), he is not leading or keeping this country in order like a President should. It can be easily fixed but it can only happen if good leadership takes place. Way too many jobs has left the country, thats one of the many reasons why this is the worst unemployment we had. I think they "occupy" can do better for themselves rather then act like abunch of 1st graders, Seriously? I have seen alot better protests that acted more grown up but there will always be afew acting out though. Btw, lil, it's said when rest of the country catches up with KY that has had one of the highest rated unemployment states.

There are plenty of people in America that is jobless but they are not going out a protesting about it.

I still don't see why you think protesting is a bad thing. Historically, protests have been highly effective as a tool to get what we want from our government. Please explain how they are being "immature."

Obama has done the country dirty with all his "talk but no action". We all know that Obama is to blame because he is the President (leader), he is not leading or keeping this country in order like a President should.

Not for lack of trying. Bipartisanship is keeping him from getting anything done. Just a few days ago, Republicans in Congress blocked the American Jobs Act, then (I listened to one of them say this on the radio immediately afterwards) claimed that Obama was refusing to do anything about unemployment.

I do agree that globalization has been a problem, but that's just another Wall Street problem - big-business capitalism wants to keep its stockholders and customers happy, so they outsource to keep prices low and profits high, and call it good business. That mentality is one of the things that OWS is protesting.

J-P wrote: Yes and no... The exec I was talking about is an Ex-Buffalo Sabers hockey player who just "walked" into the position. Just a total shmooze hound. There were many many other people far more qualified to be there than he was. Many times over in larger businesses, if you are good at what you do they tend to keep you there.

As a matter of fact we are at a point where we don't have to rely on fossil fuels for the majority of our power consumption. The problem lies in the "costs" involved in implementing these alternative energies.

Last point.. this is just a micro snap shot of what "could happen".. Look at this forum. There are dozens of members "helping eachother out" out of hundreds of members. Some are very dedicated and many come and go. I don't think PP has handed out a single pay cheque as of yet. It is a kind caring community and we do what we can.

I am no economist, nor a banker and don't hold a Ph.D but I know there has to be a better way.

just check the videos:
http://www.invertplanet.com/forum/f29/v ... ct-58.html

Then how can we be at the point if the costs are prohibitive? Here in the UK we have seen our petrol, gas and electricity bills soar over the last few years. Fair enough much of it is to do with taking advantage of the unstable world we live in but it is also to do with the Governments "green" taxes and the insistence by the Government that the companies invest in "green" research and development and implementation of the “green” technologies that you are talking about so that the UK can achieve an arbitrary carbon emission figure that it told the EU that it could achieve by an arbitrary date. Because it gave itself this arbitrary figure and date the country is at risk of being fined by the unelected EU Government. - Apologies I went off on a tangent.

You cited the Puffer Forum as a community helping each other out but helping each other out with knowledge is one thing and helping each other out with your hard earned paycheque is another thing entirely.

LilGreenPuffer wrote:I've seen a TON of older people involved. One of the handwritten messages I read was from an architect who had earned multiple higher education degrees, built a business, lost it in an economic downturn, built another business, and lost it again when the housing market crashed. He said that he'd never asked to have anything handed to him; on the contrary, he had worked hard his whole life and earned everything he had. But hard work wasn't enough, because he lost it through no fault of his own.

My dad hasn't lost his job, since he's tenured and legally can't get let go unless his employer pretty much goes bankrupt, but he's had to take a significant paycut, and he's lost a substantial amount of health care benefits. This is because the college where he teaches is losing students because so many people can't afford to start or stay in school. My dad went to Princeton, has a Ph.D. in math, wrote a textbook, created the plan that is getting the college's academic accreditation renewed, ran the Honors Program for many years, sponsors the Math Club and Feminists for Life (student organizations), sponsors "alternative" (educational and service-oriented) spring break trips every year, and founded and runs the campus community garden. If that's not hard work, I don't know what is. But instead of getting rewarded, he got a pay cut and lost benefits. We've been lucky, incredibly lucky, but even the lucky ones are feeling the impact of this economic crisis.

Maybe that Architect isn’t so good at running a business or isn’t very good at his job? If he is good at his job then he should try to find employment with a company where he is an employee not the employer.

Here’s a tip if you can’t find employment in your chosen business sector – look at another sector until a job becomes available.

Fair play to your dad because he is getting on with it and he will probably be rewarded when times get bette. Hopefully he can cope with his financial outgoings on his current salary.

As far as higher education goes – you don’t always need it. My best mate left school at 16, got a job and climbed the ladder. He is now doing very well for himself.
I don’t know what it’s like in America or elsewhere but here in the UK they were running ridiculous degrees, some colleges started courses on David Beckham!! How can it be right that the tax payer is lumbered with the bill for a ridiculous degree about a footballer? When the time comes I will advise my son to only go to Uni if he is in with a shout of getting a degree in a subject that will lead to a high paid job because the debt at the end isn’t worth it unless you are in the higher tax bracket.

Why is capitalism such a dirty word? It drives the economy and contributes to the welfare system that helps the less fortunate? Yes many avoid paying the full amount of tax that they should but if the companies left the country would there be less jobs available and hence less money available for the welfare system?

It may not come across like it in my post but I do believe in the welfare system and even the NHS but when you live across the street to a family of spongers that have never worked a day in their life and they appear to be coping just as well in life as you are when your home is bringing in two salaries then something is wrong and therefore I do not believe in “sharing the wealth” any further than what is already happening.

Maybe there is some mileage in capping director’s wages in relation to company earnings and the lowest paid in their organisation but the entire world would have to agree on it and I don’t quite know how it would work in practice. That is for far more intelligent people than me to work out – maybe the occupy movement could come up with some ideas since they’ve got so much free time...

Here’s some food for thought: maybe the world crisis is the tipping point where the west falls and the east rises, you cannot stay at the top forever and maybe we are all readjusting to that, or maybe it is to do with the latest media scaremongering and that the world is simply overpopulated and we can’t cope?

It may not come across like it in my post but I do believe in the welfare system and even the NHS but when you live across the street to a family of spongers that have never worked a day in their life and they appear to be coping just as well in life as you are when your home is bringing in two salaries then something is wrong and therefore I do not believe in “sharing the wealth” any further than what is already happening.

OWS wants incredibly rich people to share the wealth with people like their employees, not only the unemployed or those on welfare. They want the income gap to be significantly smaller.

Here’s a tip if you can’t find employment in your chosen business sector – look at another sector until a job becomes available.

This isn't working these days. There are fewer businesses hiring, period. The ones that are often don't want people who are overqualified or educated for a different job.

Why is capitalism such a dirty word? It drives the economy and contributes to the welfare system that helps the less fortunate? Yes many avoid paying the full amount of tax that they should but if the companies left the country would there be less jobs available and hence less money available for the welfare system?

It drives the economy in the wrong direction. If there were no large businesses, there would be more local ones, which by their very nature require responsibility - when the whole community knows who runs a business, the person on top has to answer to the people they affect. Plus, money stays in the community, rather than getting funneled into a few people's pockets. Small business owners have a hard time getting corrupted by money and power because they don't get as much of it. That's how it should be.

I have many acquaintances who refuse to go out & find work because they will get less than their unemployment checks. Some have been on unemployment for 4 years now. They sit at home, depressed, doing absolutely nothing with their lives. They're pretty happy with the movement.

Lilgreenpuffer, dont blame us Republicans for being the cause that Obama cant lead this country and had put us in a very deep whole that will take a very long time trying to climb out of. Obama has not done anything for this country ever since he got in office. The only reason he tryin this job act bill (that will probley fail like Obamacare and everything else he had tryed passin before) he is getting desperate because the 2012 election is just around the corner (next Nov. but close enough ) and his popularity has dropped. Also seen that he is trying to suck up the the young collage students (young voters) with this Student Loans, that we can not afford. Even heard that he could be joining Former president Jimmy Carter as the worse presidents in American history. Now I dont remember Jimmy Carter but heard that he did almost the same thing to the country as Obama until Ronald Reagan was elected and brought the US bad in order. Now I will agree with you about the congress being part of the problem but not of it. Some Dems. and some Republicans disagreeing like they have aways done. Now that will never change. Now as a Republican, I do not agree with everything they do but they know that Obama's plans and bill always has some sort of a bad twist in them that would do more harm then good. Like Obama want more government to be involved in everyones business while we the people wants less government. My beliefs for our government are less government (but only what they are needed in), keeping our Constitution strong, leading this country the way it should (good leadership), and keeping us up with rest of the world and not the way we are now. These things Obama has lacked since he has been President. You can deny all you want but the truth is the truth. Btw, Lilgreenpuffer I see we have political differences. Nothing wrong with that because I have a in-law that is a Liberal...LOL.

Like Obama want more government to be involved in everyones business while we the people wants less government.

Speak for yourself! I am a fan of "big government," and I know many, many people who agree!

LGP, Obama is nothing more than a "spellbinder". All talk--no action. How do you like the "change" he promised?

LilGreenPuffer wrote:

Like Obama want more government to be involved in everyones business while we the people wants less government.

Speak for yourself! I am a fan of "big government," and I know many, many people who agree!

I have many acquaintances who refuse to go out & find work because they will get less than their unemployment checks. Some have been on unemployment for 4 years now. They sit at home, depressed, doing absolutely nothing with their lives. They're pretty happy with the movement.

Time to change the income gap! Wages should be more equal; everyone who works full-time should get a living wage. OWS wants this. It's pathetic that the only readily available work doesn't pay a living wage. Full-time at McDonald's won't support a family, but if the corporate owners earned less (which won't hurt them a bit, since they make more money than they can spend) and paid their employees more, wouldn't that be great? This situation will only happen through government involvement; huge businesses won't pay their lower-down workers a living wage unless they're forced to by law. That's because big-business capitalism encourages personal gain, not the common good (AKA ethics!).

LGP, Obama is nothing more than a "spellbinder". All talk--no action. How do you like the "change" he promised?

I love his healthcare, though not as much as the one he tried to pass originally. If I choose to go to vet tech school (seriously considering this), then I won't be able to work full-time, and I won't get benefits. With "Obamacare," I can stay on my parents' health insurance till I'm 26, as long as I'm a full-time student. (Most of my friends are in the same situation, since they are going on to graduate school.) As a person who suffers from mental illness and needs frequent appointments with a therapist and psychiatrist, not to mention my prescriptions, I'd be dead, literally, without health insurance. I wouldn't be able to afford my mental health care, and without my medication, I'd become suicidal again quickly. Obamacare will let me get the job training I need to (hopefully) get work.

I also supported many of the bills he tried to pass without success due to Republican opposition. Obama faces prejudice from those who claim he's not an American or a Christian (come on, religious freedom? this is America - it shouldn't even matter!); he's proven the opposite over and over again, yet made-up stories about "death panels" and being born in Kenya prevail. Obama's inability to enact his *many* of his plans for change are not his own fault.

Here's the plans he HAS enacted:

Pufferpunk wrote:LGP, Obama is nothing more than a "spellbinder". All talk--no action. How do you like the "change" he promised?

I am right there with you. He's just a puppet being used by those in office who have the most influence, and the most wealth. He's a lot of talk, and he has good ideas, and it's sad that bipartisanship blocks some of those ideas, but you know that there is alot more riding behind those ideas than just him. I didn't like him, I didn't vote for him, but, we have to cope with what we have.

I am sorry, to those of you who think OWS is for people who are lazy and don't work, you are totally in the wrong. I have been on my own since I was 16. I have worked very hard for everything that I own, and where I am at today. And those of you living in different countries or other states who don't think higher education, you are sorely wrong. You might get away with not having it in Europe, or Idaho, but hell, my apartment rent is $1310 a month, and that is only for 660 sq feet. If I don't have a degree in higher education, I would be living with my parents until they bought their own and I inherited theirs. You can't live in California, without higher education. You can, but cost of living would either drive you out of the state, or if you could afford it, you will be renting the rest of your life. I saw my parents' struggle while growing up, and I am trying to get a degree so my kids won't have to see me struggle as much. Also, being on my own since I was 16, I have a hospital bill that is $17K+ because I almost lost both my kidneys due to e. coli back in 2007. While other people was able to get welfare and get their bills paid, I was told by a person that worked at the state office and this is a direct quote by her "because you are 22, white and don't have any kids, it is a waste of your time and mine to give you the Medicare form." I despise our welfare system in California. I think we need it, but I think it needs a serious overhaul. People who need the help don't get it, and people who can afford something else, still have it. That being said....

I agree with OWS, and I agree that closing the gap between incomes of the classes is something that might help. Again, as a finance major, a lot of stuff would get moving if the taxes were looked at. I pay my taxes every year, and don't have a problem with it, but when you have someone like Warren Buffet pointing out the discrepancies between the taxes of the two classes, you know that their numbers should be revisited at least. Knowing the state of our country, I just want us to be able to get back on to our feet, get the National debt down, and the economy going. Regardless of how it is done, it doesn't matter, all that matters is the end result. Who knows, OWS might be the spark that gets the flame going. As long as the end result is the same, then the more power to them.

*is very happy to live in Canada* That is all I have to say.

I also know people who wont work because its too easy not to. It's struggling families and the elderly who need help. If I had a little help I would not have to work myself to exhaustion and be able to enjoy my annual leave instead of spacing it as recovery time. I work days and my wife works nights so when do we spend quality time? All because our government here forks out on many foreigners. Now don't label me a racist but when people come here and take our council houses and refuse to work, but can afford a nice posh motor something is very wrong

bertie 83, you're in the UK, right?

Yes absolutely. Sorry see government stuff and go off on one. Just dont like people who dont work getting better stuff than me when me and my wife work combined 120 hours plus per week

Pufferpunk wrote:LGP, Obama is nothing more than a "spellbinder". All talk--no action. How do you like the "change" he promised?

I agree 110% and agree alot more if it was possible..lol. Well looks like me and PP is on the same front There is something about Liberals and Conservatives, they never see eye to eye...lol