DIY refugium aka veggie filter

Post by **RTR** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:30 pm

Algae issues are from imbalance in the nutrients, excess of some thing(s) with inadequate other thing(s). The additional plant load evens thing out in large part by acting as a sponge for excesses, whatever they may be. And those excesses are exported with the prunings. That is nitrate removal, along with other nutrients. It commonly in my usage involves plants not used in quantity in the dispay tanks (such as masses of Java Moss and emersed Crinums) because they are better "sponges".

It is easier to harvest quarts of moss and older leaves of the Crinums p[lus young Crinum offsets than to do large-volume partials on 300 gallons several times a week. It is exactly replacing water partials in that circumstance. The system must have good water quality, as it is where bristlenose, cherry barbs, and rainbows are bred and it serves also as first grow-out for all of those.

Ali · Post by **Ali** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:38 pm

Well I got 2 specimens of Hornwort the other day and they seem to be doing quite well. Is this a good plant for the job?

Thanks

Post by **RTR** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:41 am

Hornwort is a good nutrient sponge if it is the tropical variety. If it is the cool-water form it does not last, it falls apart and the leaves/needles are a mess. If you get a large colony going, keep an eye on the GH/KH. Like Anacharis, it can pull a lot of the hardness minerals out of the water.

Ali · Post by **Ali** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:52 pm

Well the plant does have needles instead of leaves

Here is a link to some pictures:

http://forums.waterwolves.com/index.php?showtopic=87110

Post by **RTR** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:42 pm

I do not know how to differentiate the two forms properly. I discriminate by feel - the tropical form feels softer, the cool water form quite stiff and hard relative to the other.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:55 pm

RTR, what do you use to grow the crinums emerse? Would beloved eggcrate do the trick, if bulbs were slipped through the eggcrate such that the roots were underwater, but leaves above water? Or perhaps a layer of rockwool resting on top of eggcrate just slightly submerged? Could the plants be "rooted" within a bin of 1" bioballs?

Also, do crinums flower in these conditions, and how easy is it to raise them from seed?

Sorry for all the questions ... I'm thinking this might be a good way to utilize the 6" of space at the top of my sump.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:00 pm

Or perhaps I'll use crypts, emerse... They propagate on their own quite nicely, I'm just not certain of their effectiveness?

Post by **RTR** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:53 pm

My emersed Crinums are one of the terrestial to bog forms (Crinum americanum), but not uncommonly used as bog plants or emersed marginals in horticulture. They are rooted in several inches of gravel with mulm, a dusting of peat, and Prime First Layer laterite. They are massive plants, eat light (4x 48" T5s, 12+ hours per day). They bloom multiple times per year, starting about Easter (how do they know?) and ending in the fall.

Eggcrate will not hold them. Their roots are thick and crisp, read as very fragile. The weight of the bold/stem and massive foliage crown would break off the roots, or just pull the eggsrate out of the tank as they toppled over.

I have never tried seed. Pups (offsets) are produced constantly on short runners and need to be thinned regularly. It takes 2-3 years to get to flowering size. That is a good thing. If multiple plants are in bloom together I have to cut off the flowers or we would have to move out - they are fragrant

Crypts are too slow growing to use as effective nutrient sponges. They are also demanding on humidity.

Spathiphyllum (Peace Lily and many other common names, including for some totally unknown reason, Brazilian Sword) is an excellent low to moderate light emersed plant for a veggie filter, and egg crate proped up on bricks works fine for it.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:59 pm

RTR, what is the minimum effective WPG lighting for java moss as veggie filter? I'm evicting the snails from my 10g in favour of turning it into a refugium for a pair of wood shrimp / veggie filter.

Post by **RTR** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:56 pm

Java Moss can fill a tank easily at 1.5-2W/gallon at 10-12 hours ON per 24, or do very close to the same job at 1W/gal w/24 hour ON time (constant light). I harvest lots of the stuff that way. At the higher light levels you do need to keep it from going emerse - then for me it tends to develop BGA in the center of the floating mass and you have to pull a big raft out and toss it. BGA stinks in the trash too.

I have not done much with constant lighting and shrimp - I'm not sure it is a good idea - I suspect that it is not the healthiest envirnment.

My Java Moss filters tend to have "fence posts" - shortish vertical pieces of slate-mounted driftwood. I tie some moss to the posts w/cotton thread and in some weeks it develops nicely. It is best controlled with pruning w/scissors for me, but if I wait too long I just pull off masses, trying not to dislodge all the moss from the "post". I use those posts for spawmimng sites for Rainbow fish, moving them to hatch tanks after 24 hours with the Rainbows. The stock Java Moss are also great for tiny fry grow-out (the moss houses rich infusoria cultres), and for breeding Red Cherry or Bumblebee shrimp.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:23 pm

Interesting. I wonder about sandwhiching a thick mat of moss between a layer of bioballs (resting on bottom of tank) and eggcrate? The moss would tend to grow upwards towards the light and trimming could be accomplished lawn-mower style. Realistic?

Post by **RTR** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:42 pm

Java Moss is the world's best mulm-generator or collector. This is a part of why I use "fence posts" - the components of the great Java Moss cloud can be moved around to vacuum the silt/mulm off the bottom of the tank. They can also be pruned top and sides. When grown as a sheet, the bottom moss dies off easily, adding brown strands to the mulm (which in turn clog my Pythom extractor at the sink). Besides that, the bioballs under the moss and eggcrate are going to be in absurdly low flow and effectively useless. I don't think I like the idea very much...

I sometimes wait a few extra weeks to siphon the bottom of the JM veggie fiters when I'm planning a new planted tank. Then I vacuum manually into buckets and let settle overnight. Instant mulm ready for the base layer of the new tank, plus instant inoculum of heterotrophic bacteria.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:47 am

Good points. Thank you for the input!

This weekend I will pick up some epoxy and driftwood.

Bred · Post by **Bred** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:11 pm

One final Q: flow rate through this sump is going to be in the 450GPH range. Is that way too much for wood shrimp? They'll either love it or have absolutely no footing in the bare-bottomed tank...

Post by **RTR** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:26 pm

That turnover is awfully high - 450/10 = 45 x per hour, full turnover every 1.33 minutes. The current may batter the shrimp to death. Or the shrimp may be pinned against the pump intake.

Wood shrimp can actually climb glass. Not real easily, but they can. But I don't think that turnover rate is going to work.

The Puffer Forum

The Puffer Store

DIY refugium aka veggie filter