The Puffer Forum

Dear Puffer Queen and Puffer Punk:

Thank you both! I will see if I can find the injectable enrofloxacin, where do you inject it and how do you determine the dose, perhaps by his length minus tail?

What is YOUR recommended concentration of Nitrofurazone in a 20 gallon tank. Puffy is probably now close to 13 inches, not including his tail.

John will be here at 5:30 pm CST to transfer him to the 20 gallon tank to medicate.

Puffy is eagerly eating Krill. I am feeding one every half hour, he always perks up after he has had one.

I use a net to re-balance him. Sometimes I just support him on his tummy with the net. His colour looks good, he is somewhat active and not looking depressed when he is upright.

Thank you so much. Eagerly awaiting anything you have to say.

Jackie

Rouge wrote:Dear Puffer Queen and Puffer Punk:

Thank you both! I will see if I can find the injectable enrofloxacin, where do you inject it and how do you determine the dose, perhaps by his length minus tail?

Injectable medications need to be dosed per weight - the dose is 10 mg per kg or 4.5 mg per pound every third day Inject into the muscle where the tail and body meet - above the lateral line.

What is YOUR recommended concentration of Nitrofurazone in a 20 gallon tank. Puffy is probably now close to 13 inches, not including his tail.

John will be here at 5:30 pm CST to transfer him to the 20 gallon tank to medicate.

Nitrofurazone for bath dose is 100 mg/l or 380 mg/gallon for 30 - 60 minutes. Daily for 10 days.

Puffy is eagerly eating Krill. I am feeding one every half hour, he always perks up after he has had one.

The freeze dried krill can be soaked in antibiotics and fed - this is a better way to administer antibiotics instead of bathing. The oral dose of enrofloxacin is the same as the injectable except you have to give it daily for 10 days. Palatability is an issue with oral administration of nitrofurazone.

I use a net to re-balance him. Sometimes I just support him on his tummy with the net. His colour looks good, he is somewhat active and not looking depressed when he is upright.

Thank you so much. Eagerly awaiting anything you have to say.

Jackie

I would not recommend feeding him much while he is so sick as the ability to digest/pass/move food may become a problem and this will only complicate matters. If you are only feeding krill this should be enriched with vitamins and beta glucan as krill is nutritional deficient when fed alone. Beta Glucan will help stimulate the immune system which will help the puffer fight the infection.
Best of luck

Dear Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk:

Puffy is so tenacious, he is "hanging in there, albeit, often upside down". I cannot express how much I appreciate your support and suggestions. I have access to veterinarians, however, some how this section of your message I did not receive until just now.

We medicated Puffy with the Nitrofurazone bath in a separate tank for day one of 7-10 days and he accepted this very well. I was so afraid about the transfer but actually it was "a piece of cake". I have petted and picked Puffy up out of the tank since he was a baby, he seemed to be comforted by the "hands on" contact.

Now it is midnight in Minneapolis, neither John or myself, in our respective homes are sleeping well. I understand the principle of the injectable medication, and the location to inject; however I do need to contacy my veterinarian friends.

What is so amazing is that Puffy steadfastly (these last few days) continues to eagerly accept food, upside down or otherwise. We all know that the animal kingdom steadfastly will refuse to eat if they do not feel well or are running a temp.This seems a paradox to us. John says maybe he has a bubble in his GI tract from bacteria.

I cannot thank you enough for hanging in with Puffy and us!

GOD Bless . . . Jackie

Good Morning Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk!

Puffy made it thru the night, lying upside down with a raised lump on his tummy. (Do you have any idea what that might be, possibly air? He is defecating. And he is eagerly eating.

In your last message you said , "the freeze dried krill can be soaked in antibiotics and fed - this is a better way to administer antibiotics instead of bathing." Can we do this with the Nitrofurazone? If so, what is the concentration? Possibly the same concentration of the "bath" tank? If so, could I simply extract water from that tank to bathe the Krill in?

I am aware that Krill alone is not enough nutrition. The reason we are using it is because it what he is most eager to eat. I am very interested in your suggestions as to other safe foods.

Thank you so much for all of your help and extremly rapdid responses. I am so grateful.

Jackie

How do you administer oral enrofloxacin, simply squirt it in his mouth?

How do you weigh a puffer? Out of water or weigh it in water (maybe in a container) then subtract the weight of water & container?

Rouge wrote:Good Morning Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk!

Puffy made it thru the night, lying upside down with a raised lump on his tummy. (Do you have any idea what that might be, possibly air? He is defecating. And he is eagerly eating.

An xray could confirm air versus mass. Hard to say what it is - some things that come to mind - abscess, blockage, air pocket, enlarged gallbladder - stones??

In your last message you said , "the freeze dried krill can be soaked in antibiotics and fed - this is a better way to administer antibiotics instead of bathing." Can we do this with the Nitrofurazone? If so, what is the concentration? Possibly the same concentration of the "bath" tank? If so, could I simply extract water from that tank to bathe the Krill in?

As stated above, nitrofurazone has palatability issues - tastes really bad. Dr Noga (noted fish vet - author of Fish Diseases doesn't even list an oral dose due to the refusal to take the nitrofurazone laced food.

I am aware that Krill alone is not enough nutrition. The reason we are using it is because it what he is most eager to eat. I am very interested in your suggestions as to other safe foods.

Thank you so much for all of your help and extremly rapdid responses. I am so grateful.

Shrimp, squid, scallops, nori, prawn, octopus are some good options

How do you administer oral enrofloxacin, simply squirt it in his mouth?

You could crush the tablet form and dissolve in water. Then take the freeze dried krill and soak it in the dissolved medication and feed immediately.

Pufferpunk wrote:How do you weigh a puffer? Out of water or weigh it in water (maybe in a container) then subtract the weight of water & container?

Exactly - weigh a container with water then add puffer and subtract to obtain the weight. There are many food scales - digital ones that convert gm - ounces and some come with plastic containers/bowls/etc.

Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk ..

Thank you for your replies. Do you purchase this food frozen specifically for feeding to pet fish? The reason I am asking is because when Puffy was about 6 months old, and reading on the websites and making inquiries, I went, as I was advised, to a quality fresh fish store. I purchased a small squid after the owner said it was very fresh, just caught on the east coast, and flown in at 6:00 this morning (it was 9:30 am). I took it home, rinsed it over and over, then in distilled water, diced it and placed in bags in the freezer. I kept out just enough for one feeding which I gave Puff. He loved it, but he then quit eating for two days. There must have been something in that squid. After all that work I through it out. I do give him bay scallops that are frozen, I thaw one and rinse it very well, this he likes. What he really likes is a thawed small cooked shrimp, rinsed exceedingly well, but usually the next day he is a little strange acting. This is why I am hesitant about purchasing fish from markets; and why I am posing the question to you.

I plan to weigh Puffy tonight. I have a very accurate aviary scale and I often weigh my birds. I am very curious to see what he weighs.

He seems about the same today as yesterday as far as balance, attitude but not as eager to eat. I am not certain that we are gaining.

Thank you again, Jackie

Rouge wrote:Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk ..

Thank you for your replies. Do you purchase this food frozen specifically for feeding to pet fish? The reason I am asking is because when Puffy was about 6 months old, and reading on the websites and making inquiries, I went, as I was advised, to a quality fresh fish store. I purchased a small squid after the owner said it was very fresh, just caught on the east coast, and flown in at 6:00 this morning (it was 9:30 am). I took it home, rinsed it over and over, then in distilled water, diced it and placed in bags in the freezer. I kept out just enough for one feeding which I gave Puff. He loved it, but he then quit eating for two days. There must have been something in that squid. After all that work I through it out. I do give him bay scallops that are frozen, I thaw one and rinse it very well, this he likes. What he really likes is a thawed small cooked shrimp, rinsed exceedingly well, but usually the next day he is a little strange acting. This is why I am hesitant about purchasing fish from markets; and why I am posing the question to you.

I feed my puffers seafood that I buy at the grocery store or Asian markets. I only feed every other to every two days depending on the food.....after squid meals, I wait 2 days. Cooked seafoods (shrimp) are not recommended for fish as most of the needed vitamins/minerals are destroyed with cooking.

Dear Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk:

Puffy is hanging in! Could not e-mail you for two days as we had bad storms and the internet was dyfunct.

I am going to purchase some of the sea food you have suggested. I was just really scared off by my only experince. I also noted how often you feed them..interesting. Thank you.

Puffy weighs 1 lb, 4.42 oz. Today, August 12th, will day five of his Nitrofurazone one hour bath. This is the only medication he is recieving at this time.

Consistently his behaviour the last three days has been. On his back on tank bottom all night with that bump on his left hand side (tummy up) just above his anus and slightly to the left. In the morning I right him and kind of keep him upright with a net along his body until he seemingly evaculates thru bubbles from gills and burping whatever is causing that bump. He swims around about a minute and settles down on the bottom. He rests on something to keep his head at about a 20 degree angle up, gill fins kept to his side. He will swim around occasionally, but he definitely has a problem with his balance. He will come to the surface for his food, but he uncoordinated and it takes him awhile to turn his body around to make contact with the food. (I have always fed him with a long, thin surgical forcep.) He seems very hungry in the morning, but refuses food in the afternoon.

Thus far I have been feeding him only krill because it is the only thing he will eat. Tomorrow I am going to try him on a bay scallop. I am noting your comments on not over-feeding him.

He has his anti-biotic bath around 6:00 pm, then it is lights out so he can rest. He turns over quite a bit after the bath. Sometimes I can right him for evening and sometimes I cannot.

His respirations are slow, his colour looks good, occasionally brief episodes of the darker green patches on his back, but never for long. He is always tracking us with his eyes.

Nothing else to note at this time.

Many Many Thanks for staying the course with me!

Jackie

Puffer Queen, Pufferpunk & Followers . . .

Puffy has improved a bit more! Yesterday, he actually swam around for a few brief minutes. Yesterday, Aug 14, (one month after the cloudy tank Ammonia spike), has been his birghtest day. Today he is more quiet, but alert, resting on the bottom of the tank.

His appetite is excellent, and I have been able to slip a good dose of vitamins into his Krill each morning.

Today is Nitrofurazone bath #7. He appears to tolerate these baths relatively well, however afterwords he spends the entire night upside down at the bottom of the tank and develops the ping-pong size bump in his underside.

The white scallop edging on his fins has almost disappeared. The thin red lines in his fins have lessened about 60%. Reviewing his history, as I have been doing so frequently these days, I do believe he had some kind of infection going on prior to the Ammonia spike in his tank. For proably about 6 months he had those thin red lines in his fins. Within the last two months he developed the white thick scallop on the edge of his fins, which has almost disappeared.

We are wondering what kind of treatment should we do when his 9-10 days of Nitrofurazone baths are over?

What do you think?

Thank you so much!
Jackie

Puffer Queen and Pufferpunk:

I may have made a very big mistake, and over fed Puffy. I always noted your warning about minimal feeding, which I followed, but I may not have been "minimal" enough.

August 17th Puffy had his 9th Nitrofurazone bath. That morning, as most mornings, he was lying on his back with the lump protruding from his belly. What was unusual is that I had more difficulty "righting" him. I had reduced his daily intake to 5 Krill ( 1/2 the amount I had been feeding), one very soaked in Zoe vitamins, beginning on 16 August, because I was not seeing a stream of elimination.

Aug 18, morning: I had a difficult time "righting" Puffy, finally I suceeded, he remained upright and I fed him 4 Krill, one soaked in Zoe. From Saturday afternoon on Puffy has been on his back with a huge lump [the size of a large marble] portruding from his underside. I cannot "right" him and I quit trying because I do not want to traumatize him.

Aug 19: my husband [Heart Surgeon], read "Fish Diseases" (a sort of a medical book on fish), looked at the anatomy of a fish and noted the importance of temperature relating to intestine peristalsis, and came to the following conclusion:
-temp in Puffy's tank was too low for promotion of adequate peristalsis, 72 degrees. We installed a temp heater to keep tank at 80 degrees. (Minnesota's weather can fluctuate 45 degrees in any given day, and has been doing so with great frequency lately.)
-upon palpating Puffy, he is certain his lump is a "ileus bloat" (i.e., impaction of the small intestine). The lump is hard; he massaged it for several minutes. Human's immediately after surgery have this problem, peristalsis shuts down. My husband says you support them with IV fluids, perhaps stomach feedings, and wait 24-48 hours until the peristalis kicks in, which it will.
-Puffy's situation, is of course, a little different. Perhaps his bowel was never functioning correctly after the trauma of the tank crash . My husband said, with human, enema's would be given. I m thinking perhaps we could administer a warm enema (using his tank water warmed slightly) and a belly massage every day, which my husband would administer.

Puffy's colour is good, he is always watching us.

This is so difficult. I have been through the dying process with so many birds, who often die in millimeters, dragged on forever, even with the very expensive intervention of very qualified avian veterinarians. Horses and dogs usually die more quickly, but you know it is coming. I never expected to lose Puffy at the young vibrant age of three.

I do greatly appreciate anything you have to say.

Thank you, Jackie

]

I have kept temperatures much lower than 72 without problems with peristalisis. The root of the problem I feel is infection. At this point, I would consider using a different antibiotic - kanamycin or enrofloxacin. Infection can cause peristalisis issues as can diets soley of krill. Need to vary the diet as krill is deficient and does not provide all the puffer needs. Supplementing it with vitamins will not add all the essentials either. Freeze dried krill is more likely to cause blockage due to the lack of moisture. You can try doing a cod liver oil enema.

Raising the temperature in the tank, decreases the available oxygen, increases the puffer's metabolism rate which increases the puffer's need for oxygen and bacteria grow better/proliferate more at higher temperatures.

Best of luck.

Dear Puffer Queen, Pufferpunk, friends and followers of Puffy . . .

The ordeal for my gallant precocious "Puffy" is over. This morning when I went to his tank he had slipped away. I can see by the substrate covering his fake coral that he had to have made some considerable thrashes, the substrate had really been moved around. How he could do this when he could not even "right" himself for two days I do not understand.

He was funny, always curious and always the center of attention, and he knew it. Actually, I was thinking of writing a story about him titled: "When your Puffer Fish costs as much as a Horse!" This is not a joke, it is true, I have bred Paso Fino Show horses for 30 years and Puffy's maintenace has been right up there. Items such as having the crawl space in the basement supported so that Puffys 96 gallon tank could be in the center of the kitchen where he could be included in everything. Which he was and which he thrived on. His tail was always at "full mast" as he blissfully swam around in his beautiful tank.

Somewhere down the road, I think I will have another Puffer. But nothing to the degree of complication with salt water and big Puffers. When I start looking, if you do not mind, I would like to contact you for some advise and suggestions. I purchased Puffy [which I will never regret] knowing nothing about fish, I had never owned one, I was intrigued by a Stars-n-Stripes puffer I saw in large acquarium with many other fish in a resturant. In fact, I had never used the internet until after I purchased Puffy, I began teaching myself by looking up information on Puffy. The store where I purchased him told me he was a Stars-n-Stripes puffer. Puffy's caretaker is the one who told me Puffy was an Arothron Reticularis. He didn't look like the Stars-n-Stripes, but I thought maybe his markings would change with maturity. Does not make any difference..Puffy was perfect just as he was!

I have some very nice photos which I am going to place in your gallery when a friend can help teach me how to get them there from my computer. I will advise you when they are there, I think you would enjoy them.

I wish to thank you so much for your excellent advise and your prompt replies. Your promptness was so important and appreciated, I knew I would hear from you and your support was invaluable during these trying times. I also very happily gave a donation.

The Bible says in Ecclestes: 3:
"There is a time for everything,
and a season for every purpose under heaven:
a time to be born and a time to die..."

Puffy had his season. He is GOD's creation, a wonderful little creature, and he lived a happy content life. Thank you, JESUS, for allowing me to have Puffy.

Thank you to all of you, and thank you for this caring, wonderful website.

Jackie

Awwww... I'm crying for your puffy. He's now with God, fluttering around happily.