The Puffer Forum

Kohan also said the fish was rolling about. The jiggling thing is the accepted method for getting air out, not something I just thought up, and PP suggested air earlier in the thread, and Rocker directed Kohan to the de-puffing sticky...both are very experienced fishkeepers.
Trapped air, as you know, kills the fish eventually, and so I thought that that might be one way to help the fish, as he WAS netted out and could've puffed air.
It's good that you may have shed light on the behaviour of this fish, as he may not have trapped air, but I don't think anyone's intent is to torment the fish or play fast and loose with spurious methods of treatment.
Also, shaking is a lot different to jiggling about, which is what I suggested...I'd never suggest shaking. You could have corrected us in a more diplomatic manner.
Pami.

Well, let me get up off the ground.....ok. So whats going on with this puffer? Where is this kid?

Ok he looks much better. I was thinking of what to do and i am sure that he naver had air in his tummy he swimms fine now he can go up and down and all around. I think the problem was that the pH is too low, and my acclimation process sucked, am not sure what my lfs pH is, but its probably not as low.

kohan:

I'm relieved to hear he's doing better; your concern and care for him leaves me with no doubt that he will thrive with you. Kudos on that nice recovery!

Goodo...keep us posted.
Pami.

PUFFERPUNK-----ive never heard anything of ro water not being sufficient to house fish. To me that makes no sense. at my store we use 100% RO (no blackwater extract or any additives) to hold our discus and wow are they healthy, eagerly chowing food at every feeding. From what ive read the T. suvatii and miurus are both fine in a neutral pH around seven. so pufferpunk... can you explain to me your reasoning? im really curious.

The Discus is an Amazonian blackwater fish, and as such does inhabit water which may have a very low DH during parts of the year, but does not always do so. Discus have been collected from waters with a DH ranging 0-12, and pH ranging from 5-8. They are not, repeat not obligate ultra-soft water fish. Discus prefer soft acid water for breeding (rainy season, with tannins/tannic acids/humic acids from forest liter/humus), and do need low Ca++/Mg++ for breeding. They will however grow faster and healthier if the water is a bit harder and the ph/DH/KH higher.

High quality RO water has no mineral content, no buffering, and absolutely astronomicly low osmolarity, meaning for the fish that their kidneys and gill must expend massive amounts of metabolic energy just to keep the fish's blood and tissues in homeostasis. If you and your store believe that these fish require high-resistance RO to live, I think that you may want to bit a bit more study of fish physiology than you can get from a post on a forum.

T. suvattii is not Amazonion, but from the Mekong, quite a different river system running from Tibet through China and out through SE Asia. Why would anyone assume that the fish from there require Amazon-type blackwater? It is my understanding that this fish prefers higher pH (7.5 and above) and correspondingly harder water. This is not a blackwater fish.

RTR thanks for ur help, but why doesn't pufferlist.com say that t. suvattii prefers harder water on their website it says pH 6.8-7.6
fish base doesn't even give a pH

But with this all said i guess i should of came here first to ask a few questions

Fishbase only logs in what has been published in the scientific lit. If no one did water parameters at the collection sites, it is not there. That is not unusual. Having the parameters is more unusual.

The Puffer List compliles what members reported as having worked for them with the fish under discussion. The whole puffer family is highly adaptable, a consequence of being second division fish and not primary FW fish. But we all know that they they can survive some things for extended periods, even though those may not be the best for them. When in doubt, and when willing to do water mods, match native waters.

BTW, Ebert's water parameters are from his own observations in the wild, so I have much confidence in them. He blocks them out in broad ranges, but if it is coded by him as hard alkaline, I'd go with that for my fish - at least somewhere within the range he gives (which is as I said, quite broad).