The Puffer Forum

Yep the same behaviour is continuing although when I check in on them they seem to hanging out together a little bit more than they were before. Still not enough to class as a 'school' though. I agree the tank size will be a limiting factor in their ability to truly swim together though.

Still no problems with the synos, so that's good.

I am having a small problem though with feeding: my snail population is now gone, with having F8s and SAPs. I really ought to have planned ahead on that one. I am feeding krill (both freeze dried, soaked in water, and also the frozen smaller pacifica krill), and also bloodworm as a weekly treat, but I'd prefer to have snails on hand especially with the SAPs. They are pecking at the krill but aren't fans of it particularly.

I tried breeding ramshorns in a tub a while back, for my F8s, but failed miserably. I think they were too big. I've been using a stock of common pond snails (Lymnaea sp.) which they love, but am running low!!! I've not tried to breed those though. Will the same tricks work: tub of water, lid with holes, leave it outside, feed them lettuce? Maybe I went wrong somewhere in that with the others...!

Anyway, CoreyK your F8s are way more social than mine then! My pair are real characters: they get along fine but when it's feeding time the smaller one loves stealing the food that the bigger one has even though there's plenty to go around!

SAPs seem far more mild tempered in comparison, but also way more manic!

I have 3 in my 35 gallon and I have never seen them school, but I have found them sleeping on top of each other

lettuce is minimally nutricious and will lead to slow breeding, and algae is free nutrient rich food... using a more vitamin rich food like carrots(cooked is easier for them to eat but raw barely need changing) and keeping them in a clear container in the sun will get much more snails faster, as does a heater and weekly water changes.

Only just caught this post and its great to hear of this behaviour. I personally wasn't expecting a "proper schooling" behaviour but who knows with time

Nick wrote:lettuce is minimally nutricious and will lead to slow breeding, and algae is free nutrient rich food... using a more vitamin rich food like carrots(cooked is easier for them to eat but raw barely need changing) and keeping them in a clear container in the sun will get much more snails faster, as does a heater and weekly water changes.

Thanks for that info Nick: I went with using lettuce for the ramshorns b/c I'd heard about that here but also of people using lettuce to catch unwanted snails.

I kept them in a tub, with a lid with airholes in, inside the house (so room temp) and did a 100% water change once a week with dechlor water. No heater or filter though. It said in that article filter was optional, and with them being coldwater snails I left off the heater. Although, now I read more about the breeding behaviour of physa et al. it seems like the heat prompts faster breeding!

I'll try again, this time with physa sp. and see how I go. They should be easier considering I had a tank overrun with them once (All in my puffers bellies now lol)

Brief update:
It's now, day three, and they do seem desperate for snails from their scouring which has become more manic than before. I've so far fed them bloodworm which they loved, and krill which they are so-so about.

They still seem to be occupying all levels of the tank, not just the upper levels or opening swimming space. In fact, I'd say they still spend 90% of the time exploring crevices in the rockwork, and weaving through plants. It's much like my F8s do, but far faster!

They do still get startled a little if a petricola comes out of nowhere: it's a bit funny really; theyre fine if both are in full view but they're still not fully used to each other I guess.

I notice at feeding time they congregate much more readily.

Another update: it's now been one week since I got the little puffers. They're coming along nicely, and are a lot more active in the tank (i.e. coming to the glass to greet Mr. Owner ). Not bothered by the other tankmates either.
They also seem to be grouping together a little more than before, but it's 'peaked' I think. Definitely loose association, apart from feeding time when they like checking out what the others have found/are looking for.

I also have a snail population growing in a tub (with airholes) in the garden. Am having to bring more in from an outside source too.

Here's some pics in the meantime. Excuse the algae on the plants, they need brushing!







Not great quality, but still

Nice picks and good to hear that they have settled in well I really like the look of these puffers

This is great to hear mate.

Hi

I had 3 SAPs in a community tank. I never saw them school but also had no problems with tank mates. I lost one which jumped into the filter while we were away (it now has a cover) but have 2 left and have had them about a year now. Like you have said they often meet up to check each other is OK and tend to stay together when you do a water change. Mine seem to prefer to rub their teeth up and down the glass and wait til you come and see them.

Good luck with yours.

Well, it's been nearly a month now since I got these little aquatic puppies, and they're doing great. No signs yet of overgrown teeth either which is a blessing rather than a relief since I know it's coming at some point!

I've noticed a change in their feeding habits which is quite interesting: when first introduced they had obviously been fed mostly snails in their diet. While I was establishing my snail colony (still going ok, but not exactly great...I need to get more in to replenish numbers) I was feeding mostly bloodworm and krill which they really put their noses up at. Now though they love the stuff, and in fact when I introduce snails they tend to pass over them. I know they do eat them eventually because I've seen them later in the day, or the next, munching at one. Cutest thing I've seen was one of the trio buzzing happily around yesterday for a good ten minutes with one in his mouth. I worried at first thinking he'd got it stuck, but they just love making me panic over nothing!!! It was gone soon after

They are far more outgoing than my F8s, but they play less, which I think is an interesting difference. That is, the SAPs will always come and greet whomever looks in on them, and they never get freaked by sudden movement or the like. They also will come right up to my hand/arm if I am planting or vaccuming the gravel (extremely unnerving having three of them looking at my flesh as if it's potential food!!!). My F8s get startled more easily, and avoid me if I'm working in the tank, but they play hide and seek and throw tantrums if they get fed late which the SAPs never do.

I recently took out more rockwork (one cave and one piece of lava rock), leaving just two pieces of lava rock in there for the synos, basing this on the fact that the synos and SAPs are getting along just fine. So far no problems, and it has freed up a lot of open swimming space for them with having shifted some of the vallis to the spots previously occupied by the rocks.
They do scour the rocks and plants (they just LOVE the frogbit tendrils), but far less than when first introduced.

This matches my experience. It's not that they don't look at caves, it's just that they don't use them. So the contrast with, say, Carinotetraodon spp. is obvious. I've yet to see them rest in a cave either. They seem to like semi-open patches for sleeping, often around the roots of plants. I've not seen them dig yet, though some authors have suggested that they do.

As for searching *above* themselves, mine do exactly what you describe. I keep the tank filled with frogbit and hornwort, and both are scoured constantly. If you watch puffers in the wild though, they do seem to like looking at surfaces rather than the water column. So perhaps it doesn't matter where that surface is, they just like looking.

I've yet to see "schooling" behaviour as such, but there's definitely a drop in neurosis with each additional SAP added to the group. They do rest together at night though, and 50% of the time they're hanging out nearby to each other.

They like water current. I've got 9x the volume of the tank in turnover, and they still seem to want more. I'm guessing these guys live in the big rivers where the current would knock a man over!

Cheers, Neale

coldmachineUK wrote:Ok, here's an update!
* They DO appear to be very interested in tank decor. Could be initial exploration as they get used to the new tank, but reports from others suggested they would ignore nooks and crannies, and generally swim about the open water column. Mine don't appear to be doing that. They LOVE weaving through the plants, especially the floating amazon frogbit tendrils which they continually scour (on the search for food no doubt!).