rainbow fish

[Peregrine]

Interesting sites...should help Martin...thanks

As for the Validity of articles at WWM...I would hope it was trust worthy..The site created by Robert Fenner(Contentious Marine Aquarist), Antony Calvino (SP), and some of the members here are contributing members (IE Puffer Punk)...Although, as previously stated...I don't know who wrote the profile/article...but it is a very good site.

I also admit it does not specifically back my actions...nor does yours specifically refute them...
The problem with all sites..it all boils down to some ones opinion. And it is up to the individual to make his own choice...and live with the consequences

This thread has been beaten to death (and pulled away from its original purpose)...and serves little purpose at this point, Martin has several points of view with which to make an informed decision (both from those who keep Aussie's and those who do not)...and that is the whole point (not who is right or wrong). I never said I was...Just showed how/why I came to my decision

We can expand the argument along any line of logic (brackish plants (not really brackish)... the use of salt to modify water parameters other than salinity....the keeping of High end brackish species at full marine for aquariest convenience, and desire for pristine water conditions...even though "natural" salt levels are not that high etc)...but I really fail to see the point...

This site really needs a debate area

[crazy loaches]

I bet Martin had no idea the can of worms he opened up lol! But 'its all good'.

Sometimes I wonder if keeping fish is all a big crapshoot with all the misinformation out there. Some are started by highly renown folks. Sometimes it goes for decades before being proved a myth. Who knows. pretty much all I have learned has been from online sources, and I have been accused of propogating some myths myself I just try to do some research, ask some questions, and make my best judgement.

[Peregrine]

Couldnt have said it better myself

[Boxermom]

Well, just for some additional info, here's what Neale Monks, whom I consider to be THE brackish guru, has to day about rainbowfish as brackish fish:

Rainbowfishes are small fishes well suited to aquaria. They are schooling fishes from Australia and New Guinea, related to the silversides (Atherinidae) within which they are sometimes included. Although their ancestors came from the sea, they fill the tetra and minnow niches in the freshwaters of Australia and the neighbouring islands. Many are colourful, and most are quiet and very easily cared for.

The most commonly seen species belong to the Australian genus Melanotaenia, most of which are 8 to 15 cm (3 to 6 inches) in length when mature. Melanotaenia boesemani, Melanotaenia fluvialitis, and Melanotaenia maccullochi are among the commonest species seen outside of Australia. Adult fish, especially males, are colourful and often develop high backs making the fish look quite impressive. They feed freely on flakes and small pellets, but augmenting the diet with mosquito larvae, small crustaceans, and similar foods on a regular basis will promote good colour.

Only a little salt is needed for most rainbowfishes. Like kribensis (with which they can be mixed) they are fish of rivers rather than estuaries and aren’t really brackish water fish in the sense of being tolerant of wide changes in salinity. Most species are never found in brackish waters, so don’t keep these fish in an aquarium with a specific gravity in excess of 1.005. On the other hand, many species including the ones mentioned here are hardy and tolerant of hard and slightly brackish water, and so can be used with care to add colour and activity to the aquarium. Rainbowfish are completely inoffensive and mix well with other peaceful fish.

http://homepage.mac.com/nmonks/aquaria/ ... notaenidae

[Peregrine]

Thanks...another point of view..which in essence combines all the points of view

[nmonks]

Bruce Hansen has written about Australian and New Guinean rainbowfish for my brackish book, and since he's been keeping and collecting Australian native fish for decades, I trust him. Essentially, his take is simple: none of the Melanotaenidae are brackish water fish, period. They rarely, if ever, occur in brackish water. That said, some species will tolerate low salinities, but that's in the same way Hypostomus plecostomus puts up with brackish water -- by dint of being physiologically adaptable rather than having any need for brackish water.

He suggests 1.002 is safe for most species and 1.005 for the hardier species that naturally come from very hard waters, such as C. bleheri and M. boesmani. I've personally had good luck with M. fluviatilis and M. maccullochi at 1.002-1.003 with brackish water dwarf cichlids and the like, though as was mentioned earlier, I've had a male sailfin molly pick on rainbowfish, so hesitate to recommend that combo.

I'd add that none of the other so-called rainbowfish, such as the Celebes and Madagascar rainbows, are brackish water. Reports to the contrary are erroneous. These fish come from freshwater, often rather soft and acidic.

On the other hand blue-eyes (e.g., Pseudomugil signifier) do well in brackish water.

Cheers, Neale

[OraLacerta]

Well, I hope Peregrine doesn't feel too ganged up on, because I found this thread quite informative and I think it will be interesting to hear about how well those Rainbows do long-term at 1.005. If they live to their full life expectancies than we have another species of fish that can be added to Figure Eight tanks which sometimes lack in activity and color. Keep us posted Peregrine.

[Peregrine]

I don't feel ganged up on...perhaps a little disappointed in some lack of tolerance and vision...
No one who has tried this commented with a report of success or failure...Mostly I was only told this was wrong...(or that was the general feeling I felt was conveyed)
As stated in my first post..I don't know if F8 level brackish is appropriate...but it is what I am trying.
Whether it is asinine attempt or an acceptable pushing of the accepted limits...time will judge me

While I have been corrected in my assumption that they were brackish...all information provided also states that they should be able to cope, and (it is my hope) thrive in this environment. One does not gain experience by simple regurgitating what others have said...but by trying (and potentially failing).

If I can find this post in 4-5 years I will update it...and likewise if events conspire against me, and the fish pass, or I am forced to move them to a FW environment (I already have a FW 55 running with other rainbows)...I will also report it...

This is a learning site, as such, all information should be shared

[nmonks]

Erm... I said I'd tried and done it (" I've personally had good luck with M. fluviatilis and M. maccullochi at 1.002-1.003").

Boesmani rainbows are a good choice because they come from hard, alkaline waters in New Guinea, but I suspect some of the other rainbowfish on the market, like Melanotaenia praecox would be a bit less forgiving.

Cheers, Neale

I don't feel ganged up on...perhaps a little disappointed in some lack of tolerance and vision... No one who has tried this commented with a report of success or failure... Mostly I was only told this was wrong...(or that was the general feeling I felt was conveyed)

[Peregrine]

Erm... I said I'd tried and done it (" I've personally had good luck with M. fluviatilis and M. maccullochi at 1.002-1.003").

Boesmani rainbows are a good choice because they come from hard, alkaline waters in New Guinea, but I suspect some of the other rainbowfish on the market, like Melanotaenia praecox would be a bit less forgiving.

Cheers, Neale

I don't feel ganged up on...perhaps a little disappointed in some lack of tolerance and vision... No one who has tried this commented with a report of success or failure... Mostly I was only told this was wrong...(or that was the general feeling I felt was conveyed)

I know you did...I am sorry for not reconizing that fact...but I refrained from putting words in your mouth re Boesmani...seemed better to try and compare apples to apples, as they say...I took enough liberties with what I have said...and in most cases (I feel) in the most self depreciating form I could muster...

Ah well it is all there for those who want to take the time to read...very informative overall