Firstly, welcome to the wonderful world of puffer keeping.
Whilst not an ideal sized tank I would suggest trying to find 2 other similar sized puffers as tank mates, I know we could all discuss the tank size endlessly. But IMHO I feel that a small group of these puffers would do far better in the long term, I would put no more than 3 SAP's in that tank. Longer term you ideally want to be looking for a bigger tank, but you will be ok if you ensure they have ample interest in the tank. That is plenty of plants (real or fake), bogwood, smooth rocks and driftwood branches make ideal decoration, you want to get plenty of current running along the front of the tank using ideally an external filter for maximum filtration because at that tank size over-filtration is a must. If you go for a significantly oversized external filter you have the option to aim some water towards the surface as well as the front using a strategically drilled spray bar you can produce some very interesting currents. Also in a tank that size a little algae is your friend as it will help to remove some of the nitrates from the water, also real plants are excellent in this respect. You can also look at some of the nitrate filters that are out there, so keep on trucking and keep a close eye on the water parameters. Anytime you can detect ammonia or nitrite do at least a 50% change and aim to keep the nitrates below 20-25.
I know some of you will not agree with my comments but I feel it is far better to provide the best advice possible rather than just tell people there tanks are too small.
New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
purplecandle
- Mbu Puffer
- Posts: 2019
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:18 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Currently
2 Adult Green Spotted Puffers
1 Fangs Puffer
1 Baby Green Spotted Puffer - Location (country): USA (NC)
Re: New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
the poster's original problem was high nitrates with an ammonia spike, even though his water change scheduled was not awful, he needed more water changes, but he was changing the water. Considering, the op' s original problem was due to waste production it would be wrong to introduce more bioload to the tank as the tank was having trouble keeping
up with a single puffer.
A tank upgrade is the best advice, especially if he wants to acquire more saps.
up with a single puffer.
A tank upgrade is the best advice, especially if he wants to acquire more saps.
Re: New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
Joey, thanks for playing devils advcado. 
Alternative opinions are always welcome. As it stands however i've decided to give the fish to a friend who is keen to get a couple of these in his larger tanks. The fact is a I want a fish that is at home in the tank that i've been working on al these months, not one that looks like it wants out!
Purple candle, I don't really think there was much to do with an amonia spike to be honest. The reading I initially gave of "<0.25" is the same as it is just after a water change - i.e. the colur match on the little piece of paper was somewhere between the 0 and the 0.25, but who can really tell with a hobby test kit. Also, i'm running a fluval 305 cannister filter and loads of plants on just 67 litres, with only 2 shrimp and a single tetra in there for company, so bioload from a 3cm puffer wasn't the problem. In hindsight I think the original problems were down to:
1) Lethargy due to poor oxygen content caused by not enough surfcae movement
2) Glass surfing caused by an unsuitable tank and no tank mates
3) Poor appetite caused by overgrown teeth
4) All compounded by poor PH matching when first introduced to the tank
Alternative opinions are always welcome. As it stands however i've decided to give the fish to a friend who is keen to get a couple of these in his larger tanks. The fact is a I want a fish that is at home in the tank that i've been working on al these months, not one that looks like it wants out! Purple candle, I don't really think there was much to do with an amonia spike to be honest. The reading I initially gave of "<0.25" is the same as it is just after a water change - i.e. the colur match on the little piece of paper was somewhere between the 0 and the 0.25, but who can really tell with a hobby test kit. Also, i'm running a fluval 305 cannister filter and loads of plants on just 67 litres, with only 2 shrimp and a single tetra in there for company, so bioload from a 3cm puffer wasn't the problem. In hindsight I think the original problems were down to:
1) Lethargy due to poor oxygen content caused by not enough surfcae movement
2) Glass surfing caused by an unsuitable tank and no tank mates
3) Poor appetite caused by overgrown teeth
4) All compounded by poor PH matching when first introduced to the tank
-
bertie 83
- Moderator
- Posts: 5298
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:28 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: lineatus R.I.P, South American puffer. Valentini puffer, porcupine puffer.
Non puffer
Danios, Tetras, Redtail Rasporas,
Harlequins, CAE's, Yoyo
Loaches, Clown loaches ,Eels, various shrimp, tangs,wrasses, damsels, chromis - Location (country): Brighton, England
- Location: brighton , england
Re: New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
Ok just to help clarify for anyone who may read this as I know this is now kinda over. My sap was handed to me and all I had to house him that was set up already was a 25 ish gallon, massively planted with many many holes and swimming paths constructed with rock and decor. This tank was also snail riddled. He settled in ok and was exploring but glass surfing was getting to me, he soon stopped and went on his way looking every where for snails, when none could be found he would glass surf a little more I now know this was boredom not just energy burning. After my fav fish ever passed, my beloved fatboy rip I added the small sap to my 5 footer. This is a high flow tank which was equally complex but now more so since the addition of the smaller tanks decor, he resides there with rasporas along with other inhabitants. Since he settled in he is quite a different fish. My point is although you certainly could keep them in a small tank and hold high water quality, they will be happier and provide you with so much more enjoyment if you give them a little more. I am also not saying you need a 5 foot tank to keep saps, just plenty of swimming space and high current is greatly appreciated by these little mad swimming bumblebee type fishies.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
-
RTR
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
Re: New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
Huge +1 to bertie's comments above. I very strongly agree.
Unfortunately, I also agree with the comment PP made on SAPS, that they are not for novices. I would expand that to many highly experienced aquarists as well. There are not many hobbyists who will devote the large/long tanks in which these fish can really shine. I think that a 180 is probably the ideal SAP tank, and i have never even done that meself.
FWIW, YMMV
Unfortunately, I also agree with the comment PP made on SAPS, that they are not for novices. I would expand that to many highly experienced aquarists as well. There are not many hobbyists who will devote the large/long tanks in which these fish can really shine. I think that a 180 is probably the ideal SAP tank, and i have never even done that meself.
FWIW, YMMV
Where's the fish? - Neptune
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32976
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Puffers I have kept:
T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
Re: New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
Even at the Shedd aquarium, there are many SAPs with severely overgrown teeth. I reported it to them. I thought they were supposed to be the experts??? They also had the GSPs IDed as fluviatilis.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: New SAP sat on bottom, not eating - please help!
Just to clarify, I meant to say that the OP should be looking to add the extra SAPs once the tank was stable. Apologies for not making this clear.