Green Spotted Puffer Lethargic not eating

[PufferMe!]

Also, never throw away your filter media from one tank, when you are upgrading. All your good bacteria is in that, and without it you are now going through a cycling process, which is likely deadly for your little guy.

See if you can borrow some substrate from your petstore, that has brackish water, put it in a mesh bag and put that bag in your tank or filter.

Gwen

[Pufferpunk]

Little to no LFS keep their fish in BW. I suggest getting that SG back down to ~1.005 with several FW WC & adding Safestart to your NEW Aquaclear filter.

[PufferMe!]

Substrate from a marine tank would work, with the salinity level the poster is at. All around things aren't good for this fish. Upgrading even to a 20 gallon, isn't going to help much.

Gwen

[Pufferpunk]

That would only be good for seeding the tank, not to support the bioload in there.

[pufferluver]

Sorry for the late response, I have been changing out two gallons of water each day, because I don't want to change ten gallons of water and shock him:/ That is ok, right? I did get the Prime!

Got some more questions..
1) I can't afford a bigger tank, new filter, and a whole testing kit at the moment, but for now if I do the 50%WC weekly, will my fish be OK for now?
2) About how many weeks is this going to take (for a big picture)?
3) I will definitely ask the pet store about the substrate (what is it exactly?), and they would probably have the marine one..
4) What is seeding a tank?

Is it true that Golden snails help with the cleaning process? An exotic pet store nearby me has some and told me this.. Should I get a couple? I wish the pet store would have told me about cycling (I don't even think they know)!

And I will lower that salinity to your recommended amount

[scpion]

Most FW snails do not tolerate salt. Further more, apple/golden snails grow to a large size. While they do eat up craps and leftovers, they add on to the bio load. They crap ALOT as well. They will not survive in a puffer tank. Your gsp will peck it to death.

Keep in mind most stores are just trying to sell u something. When in doubt, ask around first. Like what u did now.

[bertie 83]

If your tank is cycling you need to do 50% w/c daily min, multiples of these would be beneficial. 7x10% does not equal a 50% weekly water change, it equates to far less. Also durin this cycling process overdose on prime it will minimise the toxins harm to your fish. This process will take 2-4 weeks average but does vary. The test kit ( decent liquid not strips) is essential to all fish keepers especially if you are in a situation when your water could be deadly

[PufferMe!]

Agree with Bertie. Seeding a tank just means getting it started with "good/nulifiying" bacteria. You will help this process if you can get a scoop of whatever gravel/sand they use in their tanks. If you are going to drop your salinity back down to a low range, say .005 than you want freshwater gravel. I think you should just go through the process with the salinity you have, IMO. So get marine substrate, and put it in a mesh bag or cut a piece of pantyhose and put in your tank. Prime will definately work and you can dose up to 5 times recommended dosage. I feel bad telling you to buy more stuff, if you can't afford a bigger tank (are you looking on Craigslist)? but buying a product called Stability is another good product, made by Seachem, that may help during this process. If I were you, I'd take that guy back to that stupid store, complain about the dangers they are putting these fish in and buy another one, when you're ready for the financial comittment, can get a bigger tank etc. The more you do water changes, the longer the cycling process will take, but you have to do it this way, if you want the fish to live. I'd count on more like 4 weeks and as much as 6. Let's hope I'm wrong

Gwen

[bertie 83]

Yea 4-6 weeks is more realistic, it could be quicker. Safestart will help you massively

[pufferluver]

I'm so sorry I thought it was 50% of water changed per week! Can Prime and Safe Start be used together, or would that be a dangerous mix? I will go get some marine substrate asap.

He ate two pretty small blood worms last night.. His tails curves still.

Just curious: What was the root cause of everything? Because, what if someone wants a GSPF and gets a new tank, media, etc. They can't using an old media or anything, so how does this not happen to them? By this, I mean the lack of beneficial bacteria growth on their new media.

My other question is what kind of water is best to replace it with? I have been using distilled water and some conditioned tap water. I am not sure if the distilled water has a lack of vitamins or something..

You wouldn't believe what I saw at this store (not sure if I'm allowed to give name) but they had about 5 GSPs in what looked like a 5 gallon!!! No gravel, decor, and the water probably wasn't even brackish. They were extremely underfed and I was so upset! Complained to manager:D

[sgtmyers88]

Walmart is notorious for such conditions.

[PufferMe!]

Tail curled could just mean he's a bit stressed and not overly happy Let me try to explain how it works when you want to get fish, no matter fresh or salt etc. Tanks go through a cycling process. The best method is "fishless cycling" because fish don't have to die. Some people start with very hardy fish (not a GSP, and/or fish they don't care about losing) You set up the tank. Introduce a form of ammonia, some actually use pure ammonia, with no other additives. I've used a piece of dead shrimp I put in a mesh bag. Within days you begin getting ammonia readings - waste product creates ammonia. At that time, you can pull out the gross dead shrimp (or if you're putting in fish food to create waste, you can stop "feeding" the tank). As ammonia breaks down and is absorbed by bacteria, the outcome is nitrites, which are even more harmful and deadly to fish. The last step is that you begin seeing Nitrates, which are less harmful (as long as they don't go high, say less than 20ppm) but when you start seeing nitrates and no ammonia or nitrites your tank is cycled. This can take 3-8 weeks. You still need to stock carefully, until a tank is well established. You're not the only one who makes this mistake, but it's sad, because fish needlessly suffer, and people get discouraged by the process, not understanding why their fish die, and they leave the hobby. You can google tank cycling and learn tons! I'd recommend you do that. Once your tank is cycled, than you are looking at doing 50% a week water changes, assuming you don't overfeed, overstock etc. There is a bit of learning in all of this. For now, if your tank is cycling, you need to check your water parameters daily and be prepared to either dose with prime (which you can do for a few days), but you can't dose more than 5 times what is recommended. Prime is only effective at nulifying the effects of ammonia, nitrites for 36 hours. Than you need to begin with large water changes. You want to keep your ammonia and nitrite reading at 0. Yes, you're going to go through some salt, but otherwise your fish will die. Hang in there! And yes, you can use Prime with Safestart.

Gwen

[PufferMe!]

Also, the reason I say see if you can get some substrate (gravel) is because gravel will contain the good/nulifiying bacteria you want to begin breaking down your ammonia and nitrites. IMO, it's better than nothing. When I was doing a fishless cycle, I borrowed a friends gravel, that had been in her tank for a long time. My tank cycled almost immediately after I introduced that to my tank.

Gwen

[pufferluver]

I will go get that substrate and master API kit this weekend asap.

1) Is it better to use distilled water or conditioned tap water?
2) What kind of snails are best for feeding, those "pest" snails? Will those survive with salt?

Thanks for all your help and I will keep you posted. He has his ups and downs, sometimes he is dark and sometimes when I turn the lights on in the room, I find him bright yellow I hope this means he is starting to feel better..

[Pufferpunk]

Tap water is fine. I appreciate all the help PufferMe! is offering but there is some misinformation there. Safestart is the product you're looking for. Stability is not LIVE bacteria. You could change as much water as you need to after 48 hours of adding it, this will not affect the cycling process AT ALL. Nitrifying (not nulifying) bacteria lives on surfaces, not in the water. BW fish belong with aragonite sand substrate, not gravel. There is no such SG as .005. FW starts at 1.000. Nitrifying bacteria should be feed continuously or it will die off.