The Puffer Forum

Good explanation RTR. I'm not missing the basic point, but trying to understand the smaller principles. Not everyone will be able to afford 100% live rocks. Most people go for the base rock majority. Some people are not able to accomodate sump/refugium. And some people may not even use a skimmer. Everyone's system is different since it depends on what equipment is owned, what livestock is kept, and if corals are kept. I aim to learn more and apply them for giving advice on any system that I encounter.

Many people do indeed go with a FO for many reasons. Same for FOWLR. Although some may upgrade, others might just want to stick to FO or FOWLR for whatever reasons they have.

Nonetheless, over the life of the tank, the FOWLR +skimmer +mascroalgae refugium is less costly than FO or FOWLR.

I am unable to understand how or why folks would bother setting up a tank which is more costly to set and operate and does a far less effective job over the life of the setup. That makes no sense to me at all. Why pay more for a less effective system.

If you are not planning on operating the tank properly, why are you doing it at all. Doing it properly saves money - it is not more costly.

All that is also akin to setting up the permanent tank immediately after QT rather than upgrading every few months for the first few years. That cost several-fold what the final costs - the total investment in upgrading is largely wasted.

I am afraid that the argument that some folks may not be able to afford to do it right is specious. FO costs several times what the full system would cost over the life of the setup. If you argue that they will just not do the needed water changes, that means that they never intended to try to keep the fish well, so really all of that would be beyond discussion on this board. That sort of tank care only goes on sites like MFK, not here. IMHO, if you do not want to do it right, why would you want to do it at all? Personally, I would rather set and operate a 20 gallon DP or F-8 tank well than a 75 gallon GSP tank poorly.

Obviously, YMMV.

There are hundreds of new SW tanks that are set up every week. Many of those people jump onto forums with all kinds of questions and their tank is improperly setup. The reason for not setting up a tank with a skimmer and refugium is endless. Its a high volume issue. There is no way i can convince everyone to setup the "complete" tank. Some people just want to know how to make the best out of their tank, again for whatever reason they may have. Its unfortunate that every forum does not have a RTR.

+ 1 . But that's our bonus lol. There is an absolute wealth of knowledge here between the top guys and girls. That's why this is the best place for info that contains no B.S

That is also the other point that I question. I love my live rock. I can understand someone wanting a completely "clean" tank. For me there is a certain joy of discovery each time I see something new. Not only is it a self educator but it is also very rewarding.

You can use seed rock, no question there. Having said that you have to understand what keeps the critters alive. Understanding the basic building blocks of life will make you a better fish keeper. It is certainly a longer process, but by no means impossible. "Maturing" a SW tank is not like maturing a FW tank. Even FO or FOWLR can take 6 months to a year before it becomes established enough to go "all out".

There are multiple small incremental steps that must be taken in order for it to develop. If we were talking about the bacteria base only, then sure, dry rock, Dr. Tims and light stocking can be done (and has been done). Adding some seed rock to that will accelerate the process but that is not an instant solution by any stretch of the imagination.

If you want an instant SW tank, you need the appropriate amount of established LR, and the appropriate SG. Going outside that and it is a waiting game. Nothing is quick in the SW game. Things don't grow instantly.

It is also basic human nature that novices (in almost any field) are the most impatient. More experienced hobbyist should have become aware even complex FW multi-tank systems tank many months to mature. Too many folk assume that since the nitrification bacteria can be matured relatively quickly, the entire tank or system can also mature quickly. When or if they run into anaerobic process they are out of their depth.

Simple FO tanks likrly are not ever mature as are more complex setups.

Love, love, love the comments here! Especially, "Its unfortunate that every forum does not have a RTR."