The Puffer Forum

JerseyMike wrote:RTR - thats interesting you say they do not have much personality, is that why maybe they don't seem to be as popular as other puffers? I have certainly struggled to find as much info on SAPs as say F8's.

Iliveinazoo - That was slightly my thoughts, especially as you can breed RCS. Would you limit your puffers to a diet that you can breed in a separate tank? I cant think of any crabs that readily breed in the home aquarium?

I feed my figure 8's tank bred snails, and frozen foods such as shrimp, bloodworm, daphnia and cockles (that said cockles are probably harvested from the wild and may fall off my feeding list). You can tank breed shrimp and some tank breed crayfish. I don't know of any crabs that can be bred in an aquarium because I think that they all go through a larval plankton stage?

SAPs are the only puffer which schools in hobby scale tanks. The highest personality fish are the hunter predators, and they school closely only as juveniles or in seasonal migrations. Schoolers do tend to lack individuality. The safety they gain by schooling comes with costs as individuals. But then they are among the best looking small puffers also, which is in their favor. They do school very loosely - more akin to the African smaller Synodontis catfish than to the schooling of Barbs and Rasboras. They need to see/small/taste the presence of their own kind more than synchronized swimming. They do school more conventionalyl in high current - which has been seen in the wild at those seasons when they are in the main channels rather than out in the flood plain for breeding. this can also be seen in tanks when they are provided with largish tanks with the front glass being relative clear of plants and high current parallel to the glass. Their tank set-up is quite different from what I use for hunter-predators or for lurkers, so that helps provide a view of the wide variety of fish lifestyle choices among the puffers.

I do admit that I started with hunter-predator puffers and those were all I kept for a long time. But eventually I got the message that the lurkers were cool also, and finally added the one FW schooler we know. They are strange and fascinating family of fish.

Iliveinazoo wrote:I feed my figure 8's tank bred snails, and frozen foods such as shrimp, bloodworm, daphnia and cockles (that said cockles are probably harvested from the wild and may fall off my feeding list). You can tank breed shrimp and some tank breed crayfish. I don't know of any crabs that can be bred in an aquarium because I think that they all go through a larval plankton stage?

Oh yeah, don't come Crayfish reproduce asexually?
Might consider a set up for crayfish in the future, or maybe if I ask my LFS if there crays are tank bred, they could be a tasty captive treat! (for the puffer, not me. lol)

RTR wrote:SAPs are the only puffer which schools in hobby scale tanks. The highest personality fish are the hunter predators, and they school closely only as juveniles or in seasonal migrations. Schoolers do tend to lack individuality. The safety they gain by schooling comes with costs as individuals. But then they are among the best looking small puffers also, which is in their favor. They do school very loosely - more akin to the African smaller Synodontis catfish than to the schooling of Barbs and Rasboras. They need to see/small/taste the presence of their own kind more than synchronized swimming. They do school more conventionalyl in high current - which has been seen in the wild at those seasons when they are in the main channels rather than out in the flood plain for breeding. this can also be seen in tanks when they are provided with largish tanks with the front glass being relative clear of plants and high current parallel to the glass. Their tank set-up is quite different from what I use for hunter-predators or for lurkers, so that helps provide a view of the wide variety of fish lifestyle choices among the puffers.

I do admit that I started with hunter-predator puffers and those were all I kept for a long time. But eventually I got the message that the lurkers were cool also, and finally added the one FW schooler we know. They are strange and fascinating family of fish.

AMAZING post, very useful thank you.

Thank you, you are welcome. It is all a sales job from which I unfortunately don't make money. If it works a hooks a few folks on puffer, I am quite well paid.

JerseyMike wrote:Well I know they can get skittish if just one SAP on it's own. Don't they prefer to be in groups of 3?
Potentially scrap the whole thing and go brackish F8? Obviously with no bristlenose plec, as that is FW.
Any ideas?

I had 2 SAPs in a 29gal. Both would change their eating behaviors daily, and they would usually just nibble at the stuff I put in the tank. They wouldn't swim around the tank together. I just knew something was really strange. I only had them for 7-10 days and ended up trading them out for a single puff.

I pretty sure the tank was big enough because they were 1.5inch and 2 inch big. My only conclusion is they had some kind of IP, or maybe they weren't comfortable with only 2 of them.

Schools are always a largish numbers of fish, the hobby habit of pretending that fewer than 5 fish can ever really be a school is self-delusion among us. We do like to kid or convince ourselves even though we know better.

My 5 in a 75 did pretty well, and did swim together when playing in the current and not feeding. But more in a larger tank would have been better.

I keep my SAPs in a group of three, and they have eaten red claw and fiddler crabs before without any problem. It's a process that occurs in the wild, so no worries in my opinion. I think you have a good idea to set up a separate breeder tank though. Shrimp, snails, and crayfish are really easy to breed and end up saving me a lot of money. The self-cloning crayfsh you are talking about are called marmorkrebs or marbled crayfish. They are super easy to breed, and don't eat your plants or fish like some other crays I have tried.

Reaperpilot2014 wrote:I keep my SAPs in a group of three, and they have eaten red claw and fiddler crabs before without any problem. It's a process that occurs in the wild, so no worries in my opinion. I think you have a good idea to set up a separate breeder tank though. Shrimp, snails, and crayfish are really easy to breed and end up saving me a lot of money. The self-cloning crayfsh you are talking about are called marmorkrebs or marbled crayfish. They are super easy to breed, and don't eat your plants or fish like some other crays I have tried.

Did the crabs ever fight back to the extent that a puffer was injured? It's not like they even have scales? I'm just thinking I don't want to have an injured puffer for the sake of 'diet variety'. I know they eat that stuff in the wild, but incaptivity is it worth the risk?

Also my understanding is that the marmorkrebs are 'slightly' less aggressive than the normal crayfish, but i've read they will still tear down a planted tank for the sake of it, and are something of an escape artist! Can anyone verify this?
Cheers

The crabs have never had a chance, although there are some funny stories on the forum about a red claw crab leaving a claw attached to a puffer's face. Can't remember where it is right now. It didn't seem any the worse for wear though. They don't have scales, but their skin is quite thick. Obviously it probably isn't good for the fish though.

I have had no problems with aggression from marmorkrebs towards my fish, and they are much better about eating my plants than other crayfish I've housed before. Haven't had one escape before, although like like to jump from my net when they see my hungry puffers lol. I too would be interested in hearing the experiences of others.