The Puffer Forum

We have had this stocking level/ filtration Debate before. Maybe the fish growing larger thus more bio load could be causing the problem . Your stocking levels are too high so I would double your water changes especially on the tanks showing ammonia, I knew this would start to produce major problems for you, now it's time to maybe try what we are saying . All my tanks are understocked so I can maintain not just good but excellent water params and a lot of people here won't stick to the minimum size aquarium, just because that many/ that size fish can fit in that size aquarium doesn't mean it should go in, now don't think I am having a go I just like to express my opinion. Stop using those pointless chemicals also, I once tested easybalance on 2 tanks and it did nothing, not little nothing, and + 1 to only using carbon for med removal, it won't help your water clear,

bertie 83 wrote:We have had this stocking level/ filtration Debate before. Maybe the fish growing larger thus more bio load could be causing the problem . Your stocking levels are too high so I would double your water changes especially on the tanks showing ammonia, I knew this would start to produce major problems for you, now it's time to maybe try what we are saying . All my tanks are understocked so I can maintain not just good but excellent water params and a lot of people here won't stick to the minimum size aquarium, just because that many/ that size fish can fit in that size aquarium doesn't mean it should go in, now don't think I am having a go I just like to express my opinion. Stop using those pointless chemicals also, I once tested easybalance on 2 tanks and it did nothing, not little nothing, and + 1 to only using carbon for med removal, it won't help your water clear,

Yes, we have had the debate before ... But, it was only 2-3 weeks ago, when all of this started
I've only been a member here for 3 weeks. It just happens to be that 3 weeks ago is also when I started to experiment with DIY.
I didn't have any problems until that. No, I don't think my fish have grown that much in a month ;P most are already full grown
I do usually only use carbon for med removal. But, I decided to try it to clear up the cloud. In case it was because of too many chemicals added.

I'm going to try a few things this week and see if it helps.
1 - stop using pantyhose, switch to media bags (I tried to be cheap, it didn't seem to work)
2 - remove as many snails as I can catch (puffer feast this week)
3 - going to switch to purigen
4 - remove those damn pre-filters (I do need to figure out a filter guard though, maybe I'll try a scotchbrite pad and zip ties)
5 - getting rid of most of the Mollies, if not all of them. (not very social fish anyways)
6 - feed every other day instead of twice a day. (I just can't starve my poor lil fish)
7 - next WC, I think I'll use 50% distilled water or RO (Or, maybe I should let my water age overnight)
8 - I've been told I have my lights on too long. Right now I have them on 6hr, off 1hr, on 6hr, off overnight.

BTW, I tried sumtin new last night for puffer feeding time. I have waaay too many MTS and slowly running out of rams.
So, I grabbed a couple of the bigger MTS and smooshed them in my fingers, then let it drop in the water.
They ignored it at 1st, then one brave soul decided to check it out. Next thing I knew, they were all begging for more.
They seem to like the taste of MTS, just can't usually get to them.

To all those who have said my tanks are overstocked ...
I ask again, which tanks and how can I fix it?
I have yet to get an answer to the "problem", only snyde remarks indicating that I don't care about my pets (not you bertie).

And lately my LFS hasn't loved me so much because I stopped buying chemicals. I only use prime now and it lasts a looong time.
I also stopped buying cartridges. Right there, I stopped spending about $60 a month.

Also, has anyone looked at the Diagram, I'd really appreciate some feedback if you have some ideas on how to improve it.

FYI, my DPs are happy and healthy ever since I changed to the Penguin 350.
Their water has been crystal clear also. and staying at 0\0\5ish constantly.

Thanks for your help,
Bob

sevenyearnight wrote:Strictly on your DIY set up, I have caca luck when I try to make or improve filters. As far as media goes, I just cut one side open, remove the carbon, and rinse the pads periodically. You could just place polyester batting in the filters. All of my freshwater tanks right now have sponges though. I think adding carbon in panty hose is unnecessary and probably impeding your flow. I think the pantyhose is probably not, um, flow allowing? enough.
If you want to add the biomedia, I guess you could make a media basket with needle craft plastic board grates in the craft section, and maybe zip ties, or super glue gel. It should allow more flow.
However, I still feel like over stocking is the root of the problem, and it will just get worse the fish grow. My support in this is that I have very little flow in my ten gallon freshwater, a small sponge filter no ceramic rings or such, no carbon, one fish, and it's crystal clear, no algae, and no detectable levels of nitrite or ammonia. My 75 gallon has a turn around of just 4x an hour, with just a sponge, and it is stocked, but not excessively, and I'm considering their adult sizes. It is planted, and I have to dose KNO3 because my nitrates are 0 if I don't. I'm just saying that the filters and the diy media are not the root of your problem.

I was using the old cartridge that way. It started falling apart, So, I decided to try and make one myself that would last a loooong time.
Sponges, eh? are you by chance running aquaclears? I thought of adding a sponge to these filters actually, but the only spot I can see would be after the cartridge, but before the waterfall. I'm not sure how well it would work there. I guess it wouyldn't float out of anything, the lid would fix that.
My fish are mostly young adults. Not much growing left, if any. I think the root of my problem is probably never fully cycled.
I also think my water flow has decreased. It looks fine coming out of the filter, but I don't see much of a current around the tank.The only tank I would consider to be overstocked at the moment would be the breeder tank. the community tank is definetly full though.

update for everyone:
my levels have started to stabilize in my betta tank ever since I removed about 80% of the snails. The water is starting to clear up also.
So, the tank with less snails is stabilizing, the puffer tank is doing great. but, the 2 tanks that are overun with snails are the cloudiest and the ones I need to watch for spikes. I'm starting to think ... maybe the snails are the problem. I added dojo loach to my community tank, hopefully that will keep the snail population in check. as for the breedr tank, I setup that tank for the sole purpose of breeding snails to feed my puffers. Ever since I upgraded it to a 30g filter, it has been a lot better, but still has spikes. This weekend was a big spike for those 2 tanks. the betta tank is slowly recovering.

I was purposely overfeeding the 3 tanks with problems by the way. I was trying to breed as many snails as I could. I was afraid of running out of puffer food. Well, I seem to have made a big problem for myself in doing that. So, dojo loach in 40g ... check, assassin snail in 10g betta ... on order. breeder tank ... ummm ... ??? ... move the catfish?

I only have one aqua clear, but it's on my small marine tank with just a prefilter.
My 75 gallon has a powerhead with a sponge, the snail breeder and my betta tank have a little internal Tom filter with a sponge inside.
I think over feeding had a lot to do with this, good move to switch to every other day. I'm not the biggest fan of Mollies either, their blank stare and nearly constant pooping.

I made no such implication that you don't care about your fish. I tend to be direct, and perhaps a bit dramatic at times, but don't mistake me for insulting, I am trying to help.

sevenyearnight wrote:I only have one aqua clear, but it's on my small marine tank with just a prefilter.
My 75 gallon has a powerhead with a sponge, the snail breeder and my betta tank have a little internal Tom filter with a sponge inside.
I think over feeding had a lot to do with this, good move to switch to every other day. I'm not the biggest fan of Mollies either, their blank stare and nearly constant pooping.

I made no such implication that you don't care about your fish. I tend to be direct, and perhaps a bit dramatic at times, but don't mistake me for insulting, I am trying to help.

Sorry if I seemed defensive. I just get the feeling that some people on this forum are a lil overbearing at times.
I can take critism. But, at least tell me what I did wrong and how to fix it.
That's like yur mom saying "because I said so" ... lotta help mom

I thought the snails would eat all the extra food. It's not like I poured the food in there. I would just throw in a couple extra algae wafers.
But, I don't think they did eat it all. I had a HUGE baby boom though and now I have a snail problem
My betta tank has turned clear today. It has the slightest haze. It's the tank I removed about 1200 snails from. I think I may have found the problem.
I just over-reacted. I was afraid my puffers wouldn't have enough snails. Well, not a problem now hehe.
I won't know for sure if the snails were the problem until next weekend when I test the water again.
I'm still gonna try a few things just in case.

The really confusing part is that my breeder tank is almost clear too. But, that's where I ut all the snails

I still need to clear out my 40g of all the snails. There are so many MTS snails that I can hardly see the black gravel underneath them all

Breed the snails separately, not with fish.

Pufferpunk wrote:Breed the snails separately, not with fish.

now ya tell me

think my cories will be OK if I move them in with the betta?
should i also move out the clown pleco ya think? i have a bristlenose in every tank, not sure how aggressive they would be to the clown.
I know I had to seperate them from each other before. they kept headbutting each other.

i wouldn't mind if some of the snails decided to start breeding in the puffer tank. makes my job easier
i actually saw some rams eggs on the glass today. But, then the otto came along ... gone

I can prolly leave the mystery snail in there. I can't really move him in with the puffers or dojo loaches.
I supposed I could have 2 mystery snails with the betta. I'm still not sure if the asassin snails will leave the mystery snails alone.
The lil guy from the breeder tank has had some plastic surgery. He's my baby.
I had my PH way too low for him and he got a big hole in his shell.
I superglued someplastic over the shell and he seems to be OK now. This happened about 3 mo ago.
He hasn't grown any since, but the little babies are staying out of his shell hole at least

+1 to Pufferpunk. Snails have a high bioload. You gotta change like 80% of the water in their tank a week just to keep the levels good.

Nuclear_Glitter wrote:+1 to Pufferpunk. Snails have a high bioload. You gotta change like 80% of the water in their tank a week just to keep the levels good.

I didn't know it was that high of a load. My LFS said 1000 snails = 1" of fish

I think I definetly found my problem. Tonight I'll catch as many snails as I can from my 40g.
I easily have 5000+ MTS and about 2000+ rams. Perhaps even more. I can barely see the black gravel now.

I'd rehome the clown pleco, since you asked. But definitely the mollies, they also get pretty large at 5", and need hard, alkaline water to stay healthy, preferably brackish. I think the cories would prefer being in a bigger tank. I wanted to get some angelfish, and the people on the angel fish forum said a single one will get lonely, and they prefer to be in groups, the body can get the size of a human palm, with fins 9". So I had to cross that off the list for my 75 gallon. Is there maybe a breeder or someone you could rehome the angelfish? Then you could move the cories, and leave that 10 gallon for snails.

+1 to seven. Once you have your snail problem solved if you can thin out your population slightly you will find things easier and a lot less stressful. Also consider getting the neons out of the puffer tank that will dramatically reduce that bio load. Lastly no one here is deliberately nasty, sometimes they seem harsh but are just throwing round their opinions, yes sometimes with sick humour but don't mean to offend, we have all been told bs by fish shops and sometimes it does sound believable,,,, it's all about the money lol

You definitely have more than enough snails. The MTS are almost pointless to have. You should rehome them to people who have ponds. I tossed some in my pond and I'm hoping they start breeding soon.

With ramshorns I'd start feeding them to your puffer daily to thin the population some.

Everyone has said it before you CANNOT take the advice of a LFS lol.

Snails have an extensively high bioload and if you don't change their water often they're completely nasty.

Hope all this advice helps, the people here really do know a lot.

Oh just one more thing is lighting IMO you are better off with just 8-10 hours straight instead of on off on off .

seven,
I've kept angels since I was a youngin. It was my 1st fish actually. For this tank, I started with a pair of angels actually. But, they didn't get along and had to be seperated. I tried another angel and they didn't get along either. So, I kept the most docile and rehomed the other. She has become good friends with the gourami, they are always together. My Angel is at about the size of my palm, but she has short fins. She has a broken dorsil fin and it just never grew straight. It looks like she has a ponytail or bangs hehe. She was getting picked on by the other angels in the tank when I rescued her. herbottom finis about 3" though. But, she really does have plenty of room in the 40g. They do like being in groups when they are young, but usually end up as a pair or loner. If you have a large enough group, I suppose there would be a pecking order and that would work out. I think you would need at least 6-7 for that to happen and most likely the leader would be a female. The largest group I've ever kept were 5 in a 150g. They started out as a school. But, by the time they were adults, I had 2 groups. They would chase the other group away from their side of the tank, except my large female. She got to go wherever she wanted. Are you referring to the clown pleco or the mollies when you say they get 5". Neither one gets that big. Mollies are about 2" and the clown stops at 3", usually 2.5", 3.5" max if it's a bull. I could try the cories in the 40g. I'll just have to watch my BN Pleco & Gourami. The rest of the fish don't care. The Mollies would prolly be the biggest bullies. But, I think I will give them to my LFS along with a ton of MTS for their pond. The mollies were supposed to keep my GSP company. But, that didn't work out

bertie,
I have almost no bioload in the puffer tank actually. it has been crystal clear and 0\0\5-10 ever since I started just really brunning the penguin 350. If\when the DPs do start picking on them, I will just move them to the 40g with the other neons. They might be different colors, but they do school together (already tested it).
Lastly, I know peeps here mean well. It just really bugs me when someone says "you are wrong" or "that's not the right way", but doesn't follow it up with "this is why" & "this is how to fix it" ... otherwise, I always appreciate advice. I've already started making alist of folks that I have decided to listen to here.

You might be surprised who is on that list
If you are on my friend's list, I have already decided to listen to you.
there are a couple more folks I still need to add come to think of it.

To everyone ... it might seem like I am arguing with you, but I am just trying to see your side of it.
If you make a good case for your opinion, I will change my opinion

bertie, pp, rtr ... it might seem like i've been ignoring your advice, but i really haven't.
I've just been trying it my way 1st

i can buy some ramshorns from you if you want to ship some... it would have to wait until next week when i have some money, though.