Grocery Store visit.

[RTR]

The make-up from the aragonite substrate responds well to losses in alkalinity, depending on substrate-level water flow, as it is the most soluble of the available substrates. With RFUG or OE-RFUG I did not have to monitor the alkalinity closely. With just water flow above the substrate I did monitor w/each water change - during that period I used an external filter with slightly coarser aragonite rubble on the make-up water vessels to boost the alkalinity to maximum before the water change. Once I had.the F-8 multi-tank system switched over to OE-RFUG , I no longer had to check so closely. The alkalinity stayed pretty stable very close to post water change levels.

It is had to give specific numbers for alkalinity, as I used filtered tap water, so I had 7-9ppm KH in the water plus the extra provided by the marine mix. That will vary for most hobbyists depending on their source water's alkalinity. If it is any less than my moderately hard KH levels, I would certainly use a canister or HOB on the mixing vessel with aragonite in a mesh bag or bags to boost the make-up water to decent levels of KH. I did continue that use myself to maximize the KH in the system. The tanks run just a bit below the level of the make-up water, but stay pretty stable between the weekly 50% partials. Before that I had to use extra filters on the fish tanks themselves to support/boost the KH via the mesh bags of aragonite - not very attractive and a lot of extra equipment when you are running multiple F-8 tanks. Even smallish HOB filters boost the evaporation from the tanks (due to extra surface exposure w/current), which is a complication I did not need, but using even the smallest external canisters is a bit of overkill. The reverse flow options were more effective and in the long run simpler as their upkeep is so low.

HTH

[akfm47]

Trying to get a picture of him for you guys, but he won't stay still. Every picture is just a blur.

[Pufferpunk]

Use a faster shutter speed.

[akfm47]

Ya, that's what I'm trying to do. This camera is pretty limited. These are the best I could get, I hope that they're good enough so you can get a good look at his beak (more to the message after the pics):

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He's definitely lost a lot of weight.
The mussels didn't go over very well. He tore at them for a while, but didn't really consume them. Now I've just got pieces of mussel laying around, rotting in the water. I've got to get that stuff outta there before his water goes bad. I'm going to try the garlic powder soaked blood worms tomorrow.

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, you must get all the uneaten food out of there. I think he really needs to be treated for IPs. Try injecting meds into earthworms. I can't really see his teeth. Are they making his mouth look "open"?

[akfm47]

Are they making his mouth look "open"

Ya, I guess you could say that, but just a little bit. The first picture shows it open a little bit. That's the way he's swimmin' around these days.

[Pufferpunk]

Either he's starving from severe overgrown teeth or he is starving from IPs. Either way, he looks terrible! I don't give him very long is something isn't done immediately.

[volcomkrew4life]

I really hope you get him healthy again soon! How big is he? I can't tell from the pictures.

[akfm47]

Thanks Volcom, me too.

Found the dentistry section in the library. He doesn't look anything close to those guys in the pictures. It would seem that overgrown teeth isn't the problem after all.

Pulled out all of the remaining mussels pieces and bloodworms from his tank last night. Got some more snails from the fish store, and he's eating those up just fine. I need to find a good supplier in South West Ontario fast, 'cause it looks like that's all he wants to eat. In fact, I think I might start a post asking for a snail supplier in South West Ontario.

If Pufferpunk is right (and I think he is) I've got to deal with a parasite issue.

That being said, if all he is eating is snails...how do I get him to take his medicine? Also, what medicine should I get, and where do I go? Is this a fish store thing, or a drug store thing?

PS: He looks a lot better today.

[jus85411]

i had two F8 that had similar over grown teeth, yours is just at the start of it. the mouth looks slightly open so they are likely starting to get too big. when mine got to that point, it seemed like it was out of nowhere. i always fed hard shelled foods but the F8 always loved the mysis, bloodworms etc i put in as well as clams. never liked mussel. so i started a really heavy hard shelled food diet. every pet store close to me got asked for snails, i fed them strictly almost meatless clam shells for a few days with a snail or two at night and slowly they started showing signs of the teeth wearing down. notice i did not feed whole meat from the clams. what i did was i took a half dozen clams, smashed them up and took all the pieces that only had a little meat and tossed them in after defrosting. they certainly didnt get any worse and they were able to completely close their mouths. i noticed it one night when i fed that one of the F8 had a bloodworm between the top plates and was sticking out of its mouth

for IP's i believe what is suggested is "jungle tabs parasite clear". someone will correct me if im wrong im sure. maybe get that stuff, crush the snails and let them soak in medicated water, sitting soaking for an hour or more. or feed some bloodworms soaked in medicated water

[akfm47]

i noticed it one night when i fed that one of the F8 had a bloodworm between the top plates and was sticking out of its mouth

Yep, exactly...then he spits it out.

I'll try the "clam" thing, but if it goes like the mussels did, it'll just make one hell of a mess outta the tank. My grocery store didn't have clams. I'm not a sea eater, so all of this seafood shopping is way outta my league.

So doing nothing but feeding a hard shelled diet was able to get their teeth down? That's my hope too. It's just finding the snails now.

[jus85411]

it did seem to file them down quite a bit, i guess maybe its a matter of catching it early enough. clams can either be fresh(at the seafood market section) or frozen(in the freezers). if you get fresh, freeze them first at home for a day or two before feeding just to kill off anything nasty that might harm your fish. i dont think i have heard of a puffer on here that didnt like clams. my GSP would go nuts for clams. i usually got him littleneck ones, they were a nice size for him

[akfm47]

So, I finally found a grocery store that has little neck clams. Brought 'em home and smashed one up. Put some little pieces in, and he wouldn't even go near it.

I left it in overnight, just to see if he would pick at it when he was alone. Nothing.

On another note, the only brand I could find was TETRA, for parasite tablets. It says I have to wait 48 hours before I put another one in. With his weekly water change day approaching should I not take as much out, so more of the tablet stays around?

Could it be the tablet that's making him not even attempt to eat?

Just wondering...what's the purpose of taking out the carbon from my filter while the parasite treatment is happening? Just wondering what the carbon does when mixed with the tablets.

[Pufferpunk]

It won't matter if you use carbon with those meds, as you need to soak their food in it to treat internally, so the carbon won't affect the meds in that way. No need for carbon in your tank anyway, all it's used for is to remove meds from your water.

The tablet may make the food taste bad. That's why we suggest also soaking in garlic, to make them like it better. Try getting him to eat the clam soaked in garlic without the meds 1st. Anything else he likes? Have you tried live worms? Don't follow the directions on the package, you're not using it in the water.

[akfm47]

So...he still isn't eating. Therefore dosing his food is useless. Even tried some new frozen bloodworms, in case mine were freezer burnt (I'm really graspin' at straws now).

I'm outta ideas.