The Puffer Forum

Here is the information from Fish Base. It is a legitimate site and is respected as truth by many in the science community. They provide a length of 19.6".

There's your answer

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Species ... =porcupine

Trekenk also provided you with some great advice. I truly hope you follow it.

trekenk wrote:dsffydase I think we have been over this before. I do aquarium maintaince for a living and yes I have seen Porcupine's 18+ inches in home tanks. As far as their growth rate it depends on many things. Tank size, diet, water conditions ect. Any responsable fish keeper should have the proper size tank from the beginning. Too many people make the mistake saying I will upgrade when needed, without realizing they are hurting their pet from the beginning in many ways. I know you have your heart set on a Porc but please do wait til you can give it a good home, that being about a 450lt tank not a 200 ltr one. In the end everyone will be happy, after all they are living creatures that have been taken from their ocean homes, they do deserve that.

thanks, i no i have asked this so many times before but i like to reserch properley as he will live 10-15 years and id like to keep him all his life, i have sold all my other tanks and gear, i now have a "fish fund" dedicated to getting an upgrade if when required, so ill look in to it now, do i need a uv on the tank with him?

The world is loaded with folks who find ignorance to be bliss. But there are also folks who want to do things properly, and only keep live pets in the best possible situations that they can provide. They know quite well that very, very few LFS employees either know or share correct information, and generally massively underestimate the adult sizes of fish and the quantity and quality of water necessary to allow fish to grow to full size.

Didon holocanthus has been caught and measured by scientists at 50 cm TL (Fishbase). That does not mean it is the absolute maximum size, only the largest caught and measured to date for submission to a recognized collection. But that 50 cm., about 19.7 inches, is a good aim point for hobbyists, and the size any real aquarist should aim to have in their care.

As fish grow throughout their lives, but very slowly as adults, there is no reason why captive specimens should not and could not exceed that size in captivity. It is a major and damaging fallacy to think that captive fish are smaller than their wild counterparts. Under good conditions, captive fish routinely exceed wild size and that is in part because they also routinely live for multiples of the expected wild lifespan.

How you handle your wet pets is personal choice. I am one o the folks who will not keep any captive which I cannot or will not house and maintain properly. Personally, I consider a 120 US gallon tank too small for a fish which should be in excess of 18 inches - both length (less than 3x adult body total length) and front-to-back depth less than 1.5x total expected adult body length). For me the better tank size would be 6' long by 3' deep (front-to-back) by 3' height. That cross-section at 8 or 10' long would be better still, and high water quality would be a snap with those larger volumes with good skimming, live rock, and a proportional macroalgae refugium. Them you would a very long-lived puppy-like pet who would very likely match or exceed wild size.

Your choice.

daffydase wrote: i now have a "fish fund" dedicated to getting an upgrade if when required, so ill look in to it now, do i need a uv on the tank with him?

daffydase why not wait til the larger tank is set up and cycled?... Porc,s are quite easy to get in the pet trade, there will aways be another even cutier that comes along. Think of how much easier it will be not having to move him/her down the line. Better all the way around IMHO. Like RTR say's bigger is better, in the meantime you just might come across a great buy on a larger second hand tank. Do you have any idea on filteration and equiment needed for saltwater setups?

trekenk wrote:

daffydase wrote: i now have a "fish fund" dedicated to getting an upgrade if when required, so ill look in to it now, do i need a uv on the tank with him?

daffydase why not wait til the larger tank is set up and cycled?... Porc,s are quite easy to get in the pet trade, there will aways be another even cutier that comes along. Think of how much easier it will be not having to move him/her down the line. Better all the way around IMHO. Like RTR say's bigger is better, in the meantime you just might come across a great buy on a larger second hand tank. Do you have any idea on filteration and equiment needed for saltwater setups?

yes my girlfriend has 130L reef tank, with a yellow tang 2 darts and 2 clowns all very happy, for 9 months so far,
i have just got a rio 300 on ebay that is being delivered tonight, my trigon is going as its hard to clean up the back, i will be putting him in this, if he does infact grow to be anywer near the size you have seen he will go in a 6foot, but i think 300 litres is fine for a start for him, should last him at leist a year id say,probally quite alot more!! 300 litres is 80 us gallons and i have seen 5 year olds in smaller in youtube, i no people do things wrong and that does not excuse me doing it or taking there advice, but the ones i have seen are only 6-7 inchs in 50 us gallon tanks very happily with swimming room, i have lots of lr as filter and a canister with floss in and phos remover, a powerhead,

trekenk wrote:

daffydase wrote: i now have a "fish fund" dedicated to getting an upgrade if when required, so ill look in to it now, do i need a uv on the tank with him?

daffydase why not wait til the larger tank is set up and cycled?... Porc,s are quite easy to get in the pet trade, there will aways be another even cutier that comes along. Think of how much easier it will be not having to move him/her down the line. Better all the way around IMHO. Like RTR say's bigger is better, in the meantime you just might come across a great buy on a larger second hand tank. Do you have any idea on filteration and equiment needed for saltwater setups?

also my filter is ehiem canister, deltec 600 hob, tmc uv sterilisor, so i think my kit is good

You should not be using FW filtration on a SW tank. You need to do more research. Live rock (1.5-2lbs/gal), sand, powerheads & a GOOD protein skimmer are necessary. Better yet--a sump/refugium with macro algae for nutrient/waste export.

trekenk wrote:

FADE2BLACK_1973 wrote:I would say he is probley right. ....

She

Ooopppsss. Sorry about the gender ID mistake . Thought you was a dude all this time...lol. Might need to update your profile to help keep someone else make the same mistake. Just like seven needs to do the same..lol.

Lol, I posted a pic of myself in meet and greet to clear that up, I was told I look just like some dude they know. Lol!

sevenyearnight wrote:Lol, I posted a pic of myself in meet and greet to clear that up, I was told I look just like some dude they know. Lol!

I guess I did'nt see it. It's just much easier to put it on profile so people (like me) stop calling people by the wrong gender...lol.

Pufferpunk wrote:You should not be using FW filtration on a SW tank. You need to do more research. Live rock (1.5-2lbs/gal), sand, powerheads & a GOOD protein skimmer are necessary. Better yet--a sump/refugium with macro algae for nutrient/waste export.

and all this i have, my skimmer is very good, i have live rock, £11.00 a kilo i spend £200 so you do the math on that. coral sand, powerheads, and filter for floss and phos remover, as i have been advised by EVERYONE i have spoken to. syill only the 1 person who has SEEN a 19" pp in an aquarium then.

That is undoubtedly because most folks stunt their captive tropicals. That is common hobby practice. But like a lot of other common problems with tanks, being common does not in any way make it good aquarium practice - it is not. Captives with short lives and stunted growth are not good fishkeeping. From what i nave seen locally, most forks locally still keep SW fish by FW techniques, which is bot stupid and more expensive, along with not keeping the fish as well. They are not doing it right from lack of good info from the local stores and little or no effort on their part to learn better.

How many FW tank keepers have 30+-year old Clown loaches? I know of couple. How about Cichlids in their 20s? Catfish older than that? Goldfish of that age in tanks? Bred and raised Clownfish in tanks? All of those except the loaches and clowns are in my tanks right now. Plus I still maintain and breed the Neon Rainbows from the first USA shipment of those fish with both males and females?

As I said before, some of us want to do it right. But that is personal choice, and the choice is yours. But if you ask for captive fish care here, you will be told the best available techniques at this time, not what most hobbyists do.

There shouldn't be a difference between wild and captive sizes, and you house a fish according to its needs; it is not good husbandry to increase tank size "as needed", I'm fairly certain you don't want to stunt a fish. I have seen them in the wild easily reaching 19", so housed and cared for properly, that should be its captive size as well. If you're not familiar with what stunting is, I found a thread discussing it for you to read.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4030&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Stunting

It sounds to me like you are wanting someone to say that it is ok for you to house a large, fairly fast growing fish in a tank well below the recommended size. And your argument is that the size may be 12" and not actually 19", but you're arguing a moot point; 12" is still very large and would need a larger size still than you are proposing, and do you honestly want to stunt 7" off of a fish?
I'm pretty sure you want the best, longest life for a fish to have in your care.
If aliens abducted you, would you be happy living the rest of your life in a tiny closet? They may consider it plenty of room because you can stand up and turn around in it, but imagine that you can never leave that closet, to run through a field, or even take a short walk, because the alien world is not habitable by humans, just your small climate controlled closet.

Hi Daffydase. What I don't understand is why you sold/selling your 350 lrt tank and have got a 300 lrt instead. Both are not large enought but why go backwards.

How are you cycling the new tank?

daffydase wrote: and all this i have, my skimmer is very good, i have live rock, £11.00 a kilo i spend £200 so you do the math on that. coral sand, powerheads, and filter for floss and phos remover, as i have been advised by EVERYONE i have spoken to. syill only the 1 person who has SEEN a 19" pp in an aquarium then.

I am crap at math but I am pretty sure that only works out to 40 lbs you need alot more than that. 2.2 lb pre kilo x 18 = 39.6 lIs.

Is this live rock cured?