The Landmark Forum

[J-P]

but it is only time...

I have no $$ involvement. SHE is a sponsor.... talk about being torn.

c333davis was your sister a member of "EST" or the"Landmark Forum"?

AFAIK EST was much more aggressive and Landmark is much more science oriented; building clones.

[Flutter]

Have you sat down and asked your sister flat out if she will sign on the mortgage if you don't go to this thing? Because until you know that answer there isn't much sense in being torn about this.

Explain to her that you value her opinion and that at the moment you aren't ready to try this thing and that you hope it won't affect whether or not she will give you the help that you need.

[c333davis]

c333davis was your sister a member of "EST" or the"Landmark Forum"?

AFAIK EST was much more aggressive and Landmark is much more science oriented; building clones.

Landmark, in the late 1990s.

[Pufferpunk]

Have you sat down and asked your sister flat out if she will sign on the mortgage if you don't go to this thing? Because until you know that answer there isn't much sense in being torn about this.

Explain to her that you value her opinion and that at the moment you aren't ready to try this thing and that you hope it won't affect whether or not she will give you the help that you need.

The voice of reason...

[geronimo69]

[/quote]
It is not supposed to be spiritual. It is supposed to be about breaking down your personal limitations and going above and beyond what you "think" you are capable of doing. She swears by is and her husband also swears by it. Sure a personal development program may be nice, it is the delivery method that scares me.

P.s.
If my sister is the signer on the mortgage I'll feel obligated to go. It almost feels like blackmail. They want me to go before finding a new home because it will "change my perspective" on what my real needs are. Which may or may not be the case. Also, most hate / enjoy the program but feel they have benefited from it.[/quote]

[quote="J-P"]that decision may or may not hold out mortgage.

or being homeless in Canada or going back to Japan. ... trust me it is a VERY hard choice.

I feel that if I don't go, she and her husband won't sign. If they don't sign, we'll loose our home and have to relocate overseas.[/quote]

OK, thought I would add my 2 cents to the mix. I've bolded the things I see that should make your answer easy enough.

1 - Your personal limitations are set by you, and you only. You don't need people telling you what you can/can't do. Believe in yourself and anything is possible.

2 - Blackmail? Doesn't this say enough? Your sister should not make you feel this way.

3 - Go or move? If your sister really loves you, she's not going to put you in a situation to have to leave the country. (wouldn't it be against the "beliefs" she's trying to inspire?)

Again, these are just my thoughts after reading the board... Good luck with the decision JP!

[Pufferpunk]

Lots of sensible responses here!

[Flutter]

There's also plenty of cheap places to rent in Canada. Your wife can work too, no need to live off of one income.

[purplecandle]

In my mind J-P I always thought of you as a Quaker

I found this quiz on this website helpful when I want to know what religion/spiritual path to follow.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/ ... Matic.aspx

I am wary of this landmark thing..

Every question they appear to answer, they really don't. It is all positive language, buzz words and phrases, fluff and lacking in details. By the time they go through their "answer" we forget what the question was.

Example~

Question- Educational Methodology
"Landmark’s methodology provides people with an opportunity to go beyond those limits. It offers a practical technology for producing breakthroughs— achievements that are extraordinary, outside the limits of what’s already predictable, attainable, or known"

"Standard educational methods often leave you having to remember the concepts you were taught or trying to figure out how to apply them. Landmark's method leaves you applying what you learned naturally and without effort."

Notice, none of that explains the methodology.

Most of what they say they can or will do seems to be based on theories of Behaviorism, Psychological behaviorism, and most prominent Cognitive-affective personality system-Wikipedia all of these especially the last one.

All they are really offering is intensive psychological behavior modification therapy most likely with out the PHDs needed to do it properly.

The end result will be directly after the long sessions (designed to break down resistance). People "feel" good that it is over, and they feel happy because they gained some insight into themselves.

Unfortunately behavior modification is an ongoing slow process and cannot be rushed. So once the euphoria goes away from the first session and old habits die hard, they will pay for more sessions.

If you feel this is something that you need, I would suggest simply going to a psychologist or behavioral therapist who knows what they are doing, plus insurance will usually pay for it.

[Flutter]

I am wary of this landmark thing..

Every question they appear to answer, they really don't. It is all positive language, buzz words and phrases, fluff and lacking in details. By the time they go through their "answer" we forget what the question was.

Example~

Question- Educational Methodology
"Landmark’s methodology provides people with an opportunity to go beyond those limits. It offers a practical technology for producing breakthroughs— achievements that are extraordinary, outside the limits of what’s already predictable, attainable, or known"

"Standard educational methods often leave you having to remember the concepts you were taught or trying to figure out how to apply them. Landmark's method leaves you applying what you learned naturally and without effort."

Notice, none of that explains the methodology.

I find that entertaining and yet very important.

I took that quiz for fun and I got secular humanist and unitarian universalist. I've never heard of either one before

[purplecandle]

Unitarian churches are becoming popular. You should go check it out one day

[Pufferpunk]

The end result will be directly after the long sessions (designed to break down resistance). People "feel" good that it is over, and they feel happy because they gained some insight into themselves.

Sounds exactly like Amway. My sis & a friend of mine fell for that one. My sis quit & I think it lead her towards her divorce (pushing the hubby to sell--get more folks under them). My friend is still expecting to make millions.

[J-P]

PC.. QUAKER?? LOL!! Flutter (Tess has met me... I'm no Quaker)

Actually it was directly compared to Amway by some...

As for Flutter's and PC's comments... I don't need a church, I don't need help. I NEED a job. That means moving to the city and getting a place but our credit rating is too low to do that so I now have to rely on my sister to sign on the dotted line.

As for PP's comments on Amway.. That is another thing I read about with Landmark. If one person is "in" and another is "out", they seems to stick with the "in people" even if that means divorce. I don't know what the percentage is, but it has been known to happen (according to the internet).

geronimo69: Those are excellent points. All very valid. Unfortunately I'm not Kreskin and can't read their minds I am 75% satisfied where I am and doing what I do. The other 25% comes from the fact that I do not have gainful employment.. and that means moving to the city and there is another personal issue that I can't discuss in the open forum.

It is the belief of my sister and her husband that I will gain from this course, and not just seek "any full time job" but set my limits higher and actually obtain that. They specifically said that my current mindset of "desperation" is reflected in the words I write and is also reflected in my resume, even though I may not know it. Go figure, because in my resume I usually pump myself up and everyone says I'm over qualified. That is where this "meet and greet" takes place. Here possibly, I can meet people and hand out the resume. That is factoring in that "in crowd" mentality that they have.

My scare is that I'll become a zombie. Want to level up in "their corporate world" and end up loosing my identity.

[Pufferpunk]

That could very well happen...

[Flutter]

You don't need credit to rent though. You don't need to own a place, find a small 1 bedroom apartment and rent it. We live in an expensive city and 1-bedrooms can be found for about $500/month.

Finding a job sucks. I'm almost done my education which leaves me terrified for my future. I'm a good employee but I'm quiet and shy with people I don't know. Those are not good interview skills. I have a great boss who will be a great reference but no one checks references anyways There's too much unknown.

Anyways, I think you need to ask your sister outright. If you don't want to do it then tell her that you aren't comfortable with that right now. Trust me, there's lots of successful people that have never even heard of that thing AND chances are that most won't give it a second thought. I'm surrounded by academia and they would laugh it right out the door. Of course, you don't want in this world anyways I'll bet

[J-P]

In my mind J-P I always thought of you as a Quaker

I found this quiz on this website helpful when I want to know what religion/spiritual path to follow.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/ ... Matic.aspx

LOL!! I took that test for fun.. Guess what.. I'm a Buddhist

1. Theravada Buddhism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (95%)
3. Liberal Quakers (88%)
4. Mahayana Buddhism (85%)
5. Secular Humanism (79%)
6. Jainism (78%) <== that one is pretty darn close to what I believe
7. Taoism (73%) <== that is actually my "formal" religion that I gave up
8. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (72%)
9. Neo-Pagan (69%)
10. New Age (65%)