finally:D

[purplecandle]

he cannot see his reflection, that is an optical illusion on our parts.

He can see several feet outside of the tank. In fact some puffers consider the area around their tanks as part of their home

[poopybarkflounder]

oh really? i thought he could!:p
when all lights are turned off he doesn't do it.
thanks!

[purplecandle]

LOL, when the lights are off he might not be able to see as well outside of the tanks so he stops doing it.

[poopybarkflounder]

haha you make sense. :p
maybe i should try that sometime(;

[xrayjeeper83]

Its like when you look into his tank, you dont see your reflection. So when he is looking out he cant see his.

[Nick]

I actually am going to disagree with both of you (and RTR) on this reflection issue.

Yes, fish in glass aquariums can see reflections just about anytime their tank light is on. Not all fish attempt to interact with them, but they are present, to be ignored or pursued as the fish decides.

I have seen this "disproved" many ways, generally with a periscope, but sometimes with a goggled head in a tank of water. Both almost always conclusively show no visible reflections. Both are also magicians tricks - they draw your attention away from what is actually going on in such a way that you didn't even notice the critical change between them and what your fish sees in your tank at home.

Lighting. If you have a light on in your tank and it is sufficiently brighter than the room, you get some reflections to see, but if you turn it out, or the room is sufficiently brighter than the tank (don't invite me over), you do not. Almost every time I have seen the periscope trick, the whole top comes off the tank. No top, no light, not enough light striking the glass from inside the tank to get reflections. The other time, it was used with the top on but open, about a half inch from the tank glass it was observing. The periscope was bulky enough that it cast enough of a shadow at that distance to make it hard to get reflections. I have never tested it, but I suspect with a fiber optic periscope placed centrally in a tank with lighting on and dim room lighting, reflections would be visible.

I have never heard of anyone with small enough a head to place it in a filled tank with the tank lighting still mounted and powered. So I presume almost all tests of this sort involve no tops/lights, though if you have enough bright light RIGHT above the tank, you will see reflections this way.

If you get into a very large fish tank, and turn the tank light on, you will see reflections, but I know many consider this test a trick itself, because there is no water.

So I invite you to try this test at home, no optics involved. All you have to do is change the viewing format so you are the fish. Fill up a sink or tub with water, and place a glass, also full of water (no bubbles) over the drain. I hope it's a tight fit, makes the second part last longer. Make sure the room is brightly lit, as you are trying to be a fish in a tank. See how you can see the drain? Now open it, watch the water drain out... and then, suddenly, reflections. If you are brave, stick your face in and open your eyes underwater, JUST like the fish - and still, reflections, as long as your washroom or kitchen has decently bright lights.

[JRC3]

I have a 15g high that sits at the end of my kitchen counter long ways, front to back. At night when I just have the tanks light on and the rest of the room is dim my DPs see reflections. I know this because when I drop food in with tweezers they chase the reflection on the glass even though the food is moving around in the current just an inch or so behind them. I tweezer feed so they both get enough and no one over eats and I also feed two smaller meals a day for the same reason...Anyways, they also chase the tweezer's reflection on the glass as well. This does not happen in the day time.




In general though I don't think a puffer is pacing because it is chasing its reflection. On the low occurrences that a puffer does see it own reflection they seem smart enough to quickly realize that it is in fact not another fish. Sometimes I place an 8" mirror on the outside of the tank. My puffer will go past it and as soon as it sees it's reflection it will immediately startle and jump away from it. After very little investigation it doesn't take long for it to lose all interest in the mirror. My F8 also tries to swim into the blue areas between the foliage in its tank background and if it only saw reflection it wouldn't try to do this.

As stated above, all in all it comes down to the amount of light on the other side of the glass as well as the angle of the light source on the same side as the fish. Just like how you can or cannot see into a window at certain angles...Sometimes you can see inside and sometimes you can only see the reflection off everything outside with you. That's why birds fly into windows, they see the reflection of the trees and sky on the glass. It's common knowledge that if you hang something solid and white on the inside of the window birds will not do this.

[Nick]

I have had several fish that interact with reflections and several that do not. Shakespeare demonstrates the largest changes - when the tank lights are on and room lights dim (most of the day) he largely ignores things moving in the room, but alternates between observing the reflections and searching the live rock for edibles. However, if something gets within a foot or two of the tank, it becomes more "real" than the reflections, though he still may chase a reflection of food for a moment before realizing by pressing against the glass.

If the room is lit and I turn off the tank lights, no reaction if he's facing the rock, but if he's swimming with his good eye facing the glass, he panics as the reflections vanish suddenly.

Now Tucker, my lil mean GSP Yuna adopted, ignored reflections completely. He also taught me that a GSP can spot the whites of your eyes from at least ten feet from the tank, because he had no interest at all in the room outside the glass unless you put eyes on the tank, in which case ZOOM, here comes Tucker to beg. The room I had him in didn't have enough space to test him out past ten feet, but he could tell if I was looking or not from that distance with over 90% accuracy. He wasn't just responding to movement, either, it was distinctly eyeballs facing his tank.

He must have studied my reactions pretty discerningly over quite some time to be able to learn the proper cues for whether I was capable of seeing him beg or not. It was a shame to have to give him up over his biting, because he was the brightest of my 3 GSPs, and the only one that responded to attention as a reward condition without food involved.

[~reefchik~]

Anyone who has kept betta males knows this is true when conditions are right (I agree it is variable depending on ambient lighting etc). Why else do they challenge the "other male" at times?