The Puffer Forum

lisafoster wrote:See thats the problem with people who think they know it all and have the perfest setup. I hardly threw the puffer in #1 the puffer was three inches long I have a two year old 125gallon 6 foot tank I don't think this would have killed him within a week. That is why people don't like posting on forums like this because the high and mighty "experts" who give smart answers like that. I am fully aware that fish from lfs have diseases this is one that is extremely reputable around here. so unless you have your own private ocean in your backyard to keep your puffer fish I would not be giving responses like that.

I didn't notice one bit of snarkiness in Myaj's post. You asked for advice; you got a politely-worded response. Take it or leave it.

Isn't it possibe that the lionfish sting left the puffer open to infection, including vibrio?

Quite.

I'm not up on how porc's catch vibrio, does it already have to be in their system?
How is the little guy doing Lisa, pictures would really help here. We do want to help if possible.

I did not post pics because I found this site the night before he passed and the lights were off in my qt. It looked exactly like another post here with a porc puffer turning gray and people thought it was vibrio. I also saw the same pic on wet web media where they thought it was a secondary bacterial infection. That is why I thought that when the puffer cornered the lionfish because he was beng curious he may have gotten stung. I figured like pufer punk mentioned that I thought maybe that left him open to infectin. My nitrates are 5 ammonia is always zero. This is a reef tank so te water quality is high. Heavy skimming 30 gallons a week water change. I did perform a large water change after I first got him maybe this was a bad idea? I do not have room for a porc but I hardly think a yellow tang , scribbled rabbit(maxes at 6"), lionfish, niger , leopard wrasse is overstocked.
The reason I was annoyed by the posters comments was because there is a tactful way to say something and then an antagonistic way to say things that makes someone feel worse than they already do. I had stated in the beginning that I had realized that the porc would not work I also realize I should have researched better however everyone makes these mistakes. Also tsaying some people care about their animals is implying that I do not which is also rude not to mention the ignorant comment about not being able to afford it. I have seen people when they have knowledge acting like this on different sites and it always irritates me. I just feel if I have knowledge and someone is asking for help try helping first and leave the smart comments to yourself. I have been on alot of reefing sites for years and thsi si my first dealings with a comment like that to me.
If I rehomed the lionfish would I have room for a dog faced puffer fish?

I wouldn't trust any puffer in a reef tank anyway.

lisafoster wrote:If I rehomed the lionfish would I have room for a dog faced puffer fish?

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The 100g is exclusive to the puffer; you would need additional gallons to manage the bioload of other fish.

How do you feel your tank is not overstocked?

A niger triggerfish needs 70 gallons minimum.
A yellow tang, 100 gallons minimum.
Scribbled rabbitfish, minimum 100 gallons is what I'm seeing, also that they are venemous and like to nibble corals and are notorious for carrying diseases and parasites.
The leopard wrasse I'm seeing minimum 50 gallons.
A lionfish needs 75 gallons minimum.

Now, all of these were off what I consider reputable websites that realistically look at adult size, activity, territorial/aggression and waste output when they consider minimum tank recommendations. And mind you, these are MINIMUM recommendations.

And you can't say, well, they are all under 100 gallons or under, so I'm fine.. it doesn't work that way. You add them up. So 70 for the niger (and personally that seems low to me) plus 100 for the yellow tang, you are already way overstocked. Now add 100 for the rabbitfish, 50 for the wrasse, and at least 120 for a dogface.. even assuming you get rid of the lionfish you're still looking at around a 400-500 gallon tank to bring all those fish to a healthy adulthood.

Considering the fact that corals need extra clean water and at least one of those fish is known to be a coral nibbler (and also known for carrying a heck of a lot of diseases and parasites).. nope, its not a good setup. Also, putting a fish that can grow to over a foot long in a tank that is only 18" front to back is never a good idea, they can get spinal damage from trying to turn all the time.

Your nitrates and ammonia might look good now, because its a big tank, you're heavily skimming and, very likely, your fish are no where near full adult size. But a skimmer doesn't remove things like hormones, which do stunt fish and affect their health. If you took that skimmer off, your nitrates would probably go through the roof (along with an ammonia spike of course). Eventually, your skimmer won't be able to keep up. So I hope you do have plans to get a much larger tank or find new homes for those fish as they grow.

But anyhoo, the porc died? That's too bad, I really hope your other fish weren't infected with anything and it was just a skin infection. Did you quarantine it before putting it in the main tank? If you did for a couple of weeks and it looked healthy, then it probably was the lionfish or rabbitfish stinging it. If not, you'll really never know.

Vibro.. can humans catch that from a tank, does anyone know? I know you can get TB from fish, but don't know much about vibro? If it is something you can catch, I'd be careful and make sure to wear long gloves when working in the tank, especially if you have any cuts or scrapes on your hands.

Nope, no sugar-coating here...

Wow you guys don't play aroound . I have never known another sire so dedicated that you would only put one fish in a 125 gallon . kudos for you and shame on everyone else on all the many sites I am on. It is amazing how all the thousands of people who keep successful reefs with more than one fish in it are successful. Boy and people thought the tang police were tough they haven't seen anything yet.

We're dedicated to the care and well being of our pets. If you're going to go out and purchase a live animal then that makes you responsible for caring for it properly, which includes giving a fish the correct amount of tank space.
Puffers especially are a rather delicate scaleless fish that happen to also be very messy, so yes, they need big tanks.
As for the "thousands of people who keep successful reefs with more than one fish" the ones who do their research and give their fish the right amount of space keep very successful reef tanks. All the great looking reef tanks I've ever seen have actually been very understocked, and the people obviously have a great commitment to the health of their fish, and to their corals.

You came onto this site asking for our advice on the matter and were given a lot of solid, good advice, and instead of being grateful to the people who took time out of their day to try to help you out and save your puffer you came back at them with rude comments.

You're not going to find very many "successful reef" tanks that are overstocked. What you call "successful" is probably a lot different than what WE call successful though. To us, it means healthy livestock that can grow to its full potential and live its entire lifespan, not just "survive" for a few years before it dies. Go find some of those people with "successful" tanks and ask them how long each fish has survived (each individual fish they have owned, that has been in that tank, past and present). If its under a year, very unimpressive and pretty sad. Under two years, a little better, but still crappy. If its 5-10+ years, now we're talking a more successful tank and a good owner. Most of these saltwater fish can live well over 10 years, so anyone who keeps them in conditions that kill them early is not a "success", sorry.

And yes, plenty of people DO properly house their fish. Unfortunately many people do not, they don't care if their fish die an early death or have health problems. If people kept dogs or their children they way they keep fish, animal control and child services would be all over them taking them away.. but some people just don't think of fish as being "alive" and deserving of good care apparently. They just toss them in the garbage and go buy more.

Yes, unfortunately, you can't always judge fish care by going by many of the folks who post about them on forums. Although, as you can tell, this forum has a conglomeration of some of the top, most experienced, long-time, caring fishkeepers around!

OK how about a mappa puffer he is only 3" so it will take him awhile to outgrow my tank? Its a total bargain at $49 I hear they are rare.

lisafoster wrote:OK how about a mappa puffer he is only 3" so it will take him awhile to outgrow my tank? Its a total bargain at $49 I hear they are rare.

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